Xnd Hero Siege 1.51

[BladeMaster3 (TVWK)]

men i remembre playng this map when i was 7years old men i love you

 

[Ricola3D]

men i remembre playng this map when i was 7years old men i love you

Thank you, I was also a big fan of 3.12 in the old times

 

[Formidable10]

It's always been a favorite map of mine. So glad to see it get an very much necessary update. My hats off to you.

Notes:

1. Please remove rock golems from the gold enemy wave section (stuns,spell immunity is a pain) also it punishes heroes that don't have a great auto attack wave clear.

2. Please buff Panderan Brewmaster, seriously ensnare and tornado are really crappy abilities, one barely does any damage and ensnare is only useful during the muradin section. Hell, drunken haze doesn't do any damage at all. Tornado being the worst level 20 ability I ever seen, basically lose control of your hero just to see some enemy units fly around instead of getting kills.

 

[Ricola3D]

It's always been a favorite map of mine. So glad to see it get an very much necessary update. My hats off to you.

Notes:

1. Please remove rock golems from the gold enemy wave section (stuns,spell immunity is a pain) also it punishes heroes that don't have a great auto attack wave clear.

2. Please buff Panderan Brewmaster, seriously ensnare and tornado are really crappy abilities, one barely does any damage and ensnare is only useful during the muradin section. Hell, drunken haze doesn't do any damage at all. Tornado being the worst level 20 ability I ever seen, basically lose control of your hero just to see some enemy units fly around instead of getting kills.

1. Good idea, I will at least remove their spell immune ability !
2. Mhh you are right, I think I should change the following abilities : ensnare, tornado, reincarnation. And maybe boost some others

Thanks for your ideas !

 

[Formidable10]

@Ricola3D

Glad to help, glad to see you implemented some of my suggestions. Although since the golems still keep stun, it seems only fair if the attack wave characters get nerfed so they don't hog the late game. Since they often get the most kills in the cash/bonus round while maintaining their DPS rate, while spellcasters and summoners usually get stunned when the golems spawned if they try to do a channel spell and thus don't get as many kills. Which in turn makes the basic attack wave characters (Dryad, Naisha, etc) having the highest stats in the player party regardless of their skill level.

Doesn't help that most of the late game bosses are immune to magic which is salt in the wound for spellcaster builds. I appreciate the upgrade system but I feel strongly that more could be done.

 

[Ricola3D]

[...]

Interesting. I see your point. So if we summarize the issues to address, and maybe some suggestions:

Issues :
1) Farm event needs to be balanced, multi-attack heroes and summons with splash are too advantaged
2) In late game, most bosses are immunes to 80% of the spells

Here a a few ideas, do you have others ? What's your opinion ?
1)
--> Idea A: drasticaly lower farmed creeps magic resistance
--> Idea B: temporary reduce the cooldown of offensive spells
--> Idea C: something more complicated. For example players can choose between 3 different types of farm event at the beginning: (1) kill as many creeps as possible, (2) hit an unkillable tower, each hit gives money (good for summoners), (3) the area is filled with 1hp physical immune units or doodads, destroy as many as possible with your spells, each destruction gives gold (good for spell casters) ?
2)
--> Idea I: remove spell immunity from bosses. (Maybe find a way to make up for it against disables/stuns ?
--> Idea J: boss have different phases (depend of their HP, or random) : sometimes physical immune, sometimes magical immune, sometimes returning 100% damages, sometimes healing, etc...

 

[Formidable10]

Interesting. I see your point. So if we summarize the issues to address, and maybe some suggestions:

Issues :
1) Farm event needs to be balanced, multi-attack heroes and summons with splash are too advantaged
2) In late game, most bosses are immunes to 80% of the spells

Here a a few ideas, do you have others ? What's your opinion ?
1)
--> Idea A: drasticaly lower farmed creeps magic resistance
--> Idea B: temporary reduce the cooldown of offensive spells
--> Idea C: something more complicated. For example players can choose between 3 different types of farm event at the beginning: (1) kill as many creeps as possible, (2) hit an unkillable tower, each hit gives money (good for summoners), (3) the area is filled with 1hp physical immune units or doodads, destroy as many as possible with your spells, each destruction gives gold (good for spell casters) ?
2)
--> Idea I: remove spell immunity from bosses. (Maybe find a way to make up for it against disables/stuns ?
--> Idea J: boss have different phases (depend of their HP, or random) : sometimes physical immune, sometimes magical immune, sometimes returning 100% damages, sometimes healing, etc...

Idea A: I am very much in favor of it

Idea B: I am also in favor of it but it's usefulness largely depends on how you approach cooldown reduction, some spellcaster heroes have a large variety of offensive spells, some only have 2 AOE ultimate abilities and thus if you reduced its cooldown by say a small percentage it might not mean much. I would have to double check the roster.

Idea C: I like all three ideas but it sounds really complicated from a balanced perspective, you would have to create a formula on number of killed creeps in relation to unkillable tower hits, and doodad destruction. Maybe it's the best one but it doesn't sound so great on paper.


Overall I would vote for a combination of Idea's A and B, it sounds like the simpliest to implement anyway. I would suggest testing non attack wave characters that don't have a lot of AOE/summon abilities, just to be safe. It absolutely feels like an idea way of putting spellcasters/summoners on an even playing field to multi-attack heroes.

Idea I: I really like the idea

Idea J: Too complicated for a standard playthrough, it would be a cool idea for a heroic mode/extreme level 10+ though, I would recommend looking into it in the future.

My rationale would be implement Idea I, and to make up for disables and stuns, the bosses have higher stats. Doesn't have to be anything fancy.

 

[Ricola3D]

[...]

Thanks mate ! As a first step, in 1.09 I add the following changes:
- Farm event: creeps take +500% damages from spells.
- Boss (included Frost Infernal): magic immune replaced by resistant skin. Only ghost has necklace of spell immunity in Extrem 4 or more.

 

[Formidable10]

Thanks mate ! As a first step, in 1.09 I add the following changes:
- Farm event: creeps take +500% damages from spells.
- Boss (included Frost Infernal): magic immune replaced by resistant skin. Only ghost has necklace of spell immunity in Extrem 4 or more.

I was glad to try out the new changes, it's a start but I can absolutely confirm that spell cooldowns does play a large factor in the inefficiencies of many spellcaster heroes when it comes to the farm event, or summoners that unfortunately did not have access to summons that have splash attacks. The weaker creeps is very much appreciated.

 

[Ricola3D]

[...]

Need to think about ideas. But we must take care not to ruin the fun, and balancing for both spellscasters & summoners.. Here are my first ideas, what are yours ? We need to think about very smart solutions

1) During farm event
--> Idea B: reduce some cooldowns -> only balances for spellcasters, and a bit for summoners (doesn't work for wolfs, hawks, scarabs, phoenix, doom guard, frost beasts...)
--> Idea C: many farm mods than balance in both single & dual heroes modes for casters, summoners and multi-attackers -> really complex to define and balance
--> Idea D: reduce each wave to 1 creep each -> it would ruin the fun, don't you agree ?
--> Idea E: link units together (they share all damages taken) -> would help for summoners and single-attackers, but make multi-attackers totally cheated
2) In late game
--> Idea K: also boost minions attack speed by a given %age or to a given value (superior to the attack speed of pure light & doom guards).

 

[Formidable10]

I just realized, maybe we could make a tier list on heroes farm event viability. I feel like identifying the biggest outliers in being weak in terms of ability output would be a great start to fixing the issues. We also have yet to identify which heroes need to have their kits fixed A/K/A removing their crappy gimmick abilities (Brewmaster's ensnare ability for example) which in turn might lead to them gaining abilities that will allow them to be viable in the farm event.

Half of the battle will be fixing hero kits, the other half is fixing the farm event itself.

Idea B: I am in favor of this idea but like you said, but there might be some summoner heroes that are still too underpowerded when it comes to farming. Maybe a new item to the shop that reduces cooldowns, but applies to all heroes, that way summoners can gain the ability to have reduced cooldowns to make up for their weaknesses though it could still be OP in the base game itself, just a though, but the player would still have to earn the item through grinding gold. Idea B I am in favor of because of how straight forward it is, even it might not be the best solution.

Idea C: I think my tier list idea can be a decent substitution to this one.

Idea D: Yeah it would be pretty boring.

Idea E: Yeah not a good idea, sorry.

Idea K: Seems fair

Overall I think the most important step going forward is identifying which heroes are most/least effective during the farming event, and then fix their kits so they are both viable in the base game and the farm event itself. If they are still too weak in the farming event but their base kit is decent, then we look at event/item means of increasing their farming viablility.

 

[Ricola3D]

Good idea of approach.

Do you prefer we continue discussing here, or maybe on a chat ?
For example Discord (my tag is Ricola3D#0200)

Edit: I am starting the list of heroes/skills in the "Game Features" tab as a start.

 

[Formidable10]

Good idea of approach.

Do you prefer we continue discussing here, or maybe on a chat ?
For example Discord (my tag is Ricola3D#0200)

Edit: I am starting the list of heroes/skills in the "Game Features" tab as a start.

Probably easier to discuss it through here.

 

[Formidable10]

Enjoy the new update, looks pretty good so far. If I only had 4 complaints it would be, and note these are mostly nitpicks.

1. The Marine's banish ability is still pretty lackluster, since it's a single target ability that isn't that good until the late game. Secondly, the spell damage boost that applies to a banished enemy doesn't work with fan of rockets damage, which I feel is a huge missed opportunity. Maybe lower the cooldown of the ability or approach it in a different way.

2. Furbolg items are pretty much essential in the early game, especially on higher difficulties since players are in a race to do the hero image so they can survive, would be possible to lower the stock replenish intervals so players don't have to fight over furbolgs as much. Yes I know cloak of immolation is a viable way of beating the hero image, two things, one it's optimized more for melee characters, secondly it doesn't have the utility that furbolgs have in terms of not being applicable when attacking enemies all across the map for those juicy kills.

3. Increase the healing potion slot in the shop since 1 player will often buy 3 of them at once and the stock will be on cooldown, when you need it the most, which I emphasize since the early game on higher difficulties you really really need to stock up on healing potions to prevent insta-death.

4. Speaking of insta-death, Keeper of the Grove's map-wide 1000 damage finger of death ability. Really damn annoying, not so much a difficult challenge to overcome, as much as a pain in the ass in the early game that punishes players just for playing on extreme for the sake of it being extreme. In general not good game design, 100 dragon attack wave, that's fine, a possible insta kill spell from out of nowhere, not so much. Please remove.

These are nitpicks but I felt the need to bring it up. If you disagree with any of these feel free to let me know, and we can discuss in greater detail.

 

[Ricola3D]

[...]

Just for info:
Due to memory leaks (my bad^^) and a limitation of possibilites with Warcraft 1.30.4 (ex: life steal & illusions), I am making a version 1.12 where I switch to Warcraft 1.31 and remove most leaks. With 1.31 I will be able to use new Frameworks (Unit Indexer, Damage Engine, ...).

About your remarks:
1.
- Ethereal has the double advantage : prevent from attacking + increase spell damages received of 66%. It is pretty strong in late game yep. It's only utility in early game is for hero image or all hero image.
- An area-of-effect ethereal ability would be too cheated and boring (because it prevents from attacking). What are your ideas ?
- Ethereal VS Fan of Rockets/Fan of Knives/Fan of Light/Lightning Stroke: Damage Engine detects the event, so I can fix the bug I think (by changing its damage type).

2.
- No problem, I will reduce the furbolgs item reload duration.
- I could also have summons follow you when you leave hero image/all hero image throough the circle (for convenience)

3.
- I will set-up a framework/system to stack&split the following items in inventory (spliting furbolgs would be a great help^^):

- Potion of Greater Healing
- Potion of Greater Mana
- Full Restoration
- Ankh of Reincarnation
- Scroll of Town Portal
- Healing Wards
- Anti-magic Potion
- Potion of Invulnerability
- Amulet of the Wild​

- I thought about changing Amulet of the Wild to 1 charge and 1666 cost (if you can stack them), but maybe it would make the game too easy ??

4.
- I removed Magtheridon's one shot wave attack for the moment (I will make another later with a clearly visible channel effect before it casts)
- You are right. I have heard many (beginners) persons crying, complaining or rage quit because of the Extrem-only Lightning Strikes at wave spawn. But difficulty is the best part of extrem mode, so instead of removing, I'd love we find a replacement

 

[Formidable10]

Just for info:
Due to memory leaks (my bad^^) and a limitation of possibilites with Warcraft 1.30.4 (ex: life steal & illusions), I am making a version 1.12 where I switch to Warcraft 1.31 and remove most leaks. With 1.31 I will be able to use new Frameworks (Unit Indexer, Damage Engine, ...).

About your remarks:
1.
- Ethereal has the double advantage : prevent from attacking + increase spell damages received of 66%. It is pretty strong in late game yep. It's only utility in early game is for hero image or all hero image.
- An area-of-effect ethereal ability would be too cheated and boring (because it prevents from attacking). What are your ideas ?
- Ethereal VS Fan of Rockets/Fan of Knives/Fan of Light/Lightning Stroke: Damage Engine detects the event, so I can fix the bug I think (by changing its damage type).

2.
- No problem, I will reduce the furbolgs item reload duration.
- I could also have summons follow you when you leave hero image/all hero image throough the circle (for convenience)

3.
- I will set-up a framework/system to stack&split the following items in inventory (spliting furbolgs would be a great help^^):

- Potion of Greater Healing
- Potion of Greater Mana
- Full Restoration
- Ankh of Reincarnation
- Scroll of Town Portal
- Healing Wards
- Anti-magic Potion
- Potion of Invulnerability
- Amulet of the Wild​

- I thought about changing Amulet of the Wild to 1 charge and 1666 cost (if you can stack them), but maybe it would make the game too easy ??

4.
- I removed Magtheridon's one shot wave attack for the moment (I will make another later with a clearly visible channel effect before it casts)
- You are right. I have heard many (beginners) persons crying, complaining or rage quit because of the Extrem-only Lightning Strikes at wave spawn. But difficulty is the best part of extrem mode, so instead of removing, I'd love we find a replacement

1. Fixing the bug should be good enough for now.

2. That would be great

3. Not sure about changing amulet of the wild charges amount.

4. If you really want to replace it, I suggest just adding a mapwide debuff instead like a map-wide attack or armor reduction, at least it gives players a chance to react as compared to insta-kill lightning which you almost have no defense against in the early game.

My problem with the lightning isn't for difficulty reasons, it's just really damn annoying. Good difficulty involves providing a challenge to the player they can react to, you can't react to insta-kill lightning unless you burn 2000 gold on a talisman on evasion, and you usually need that many for a bracer of protection so you don't get insta-killed to things like that in the FIRST PLACE!

 

[mrasd32]

Well im playing with some guys and i was Blademaster, got the Baristol and Ramero event, and after complete it(getting the ligthing blade) was insanely bug, because use mirror image starting to spam 1 Lighting blade for each ilusion each seccond getting an insane spawn rate of that blades, and of course after many spawn got Crash, i tested it in solo play and happend the same so, basically Blademaster broken the map(The mirror skill broke it)

 

[Ricola3D]

Well im playing with some guys and i was Blademaster, got the Baristol and Ramero event, and after complete it(getting the ligthing blade) was insanely bug, because use mirror image starting to spam 1 Lighting blade for each ilusion each seccond getting an insane spawn rate of that blades, and of course after many spawn got Crash, i tested it in solo play and happend the same so, basically Blademaster broken the map(The mirror skill broke it)

Very sorry, I am posting right now a 1.11b that fix regressions/bugs with lightning sword :S

 

[lajr]

Hi, Ricola3D.
We've played some games before. There is still the major bug of people getting desynced randomly.
And the bug introduced in 1.11 and 1.11b where "dual random" option doesn't work. The heroes don't spawn and -random does nothing nor selecting them manually. So i had to restart and choose dual hero and then type -random. And to be honest there should be a clear warning that the final wave comes with trebuchets at the 2 doors.

 

[Ricola3D]

Hi, Ricola3D.
We've played some games before. There is still the major bug of people getting desynced randomly.
And the bug introduced in 1.11 and 1.11b where "dual random" option doesn't work. The heroes don't spawn and -random does nothing nor selecting them manually. So i had to restart and choose dual hero and then type -random. And to be honest there should be a clear warning that the final wave comes with trebuchets at the 2 doors.

Thanks lajr.
- About the dual random regression: I'll make a sanity check to see if other modes don't work either. I'll fix it ASAP (1-3 days)
- About the trebuchets. Well it is kind of a "gadget", I can remove them since they are not really usefull. It is not like if I added a "trebuchet" wave ^^
- About desync. It is very hard to analyse. I'm trying to remove as many as possible of the code pieces that may provoke desync (=functions GetLocalPlayer(), comparisons "Player slot", effects "Terrain deformation) but it is quite hard to analyse then test random cases.. if you can find more information about desync scenario (which heroes the player had, which part of the game was running, ...) please let me know. Anyway, I will release it in 1.12, so it will take more than 1-3 days sorry..

 

[Satariel]

Nice to see that someone takes the Time/Effort to update this Custom Game.

However the Naga-Myrmidon should be nerfed, he is way to OP and when the Stone-Giant (Mountain Giant) casts his Bombard-Spell, didn't tested the others yet, everyone in the Game gets kicked out.
The Map is also extremely laggy. It first begins with some minor Lags but usually before the second Special Event and after that it really starts to lag extrem, goes back to normal for some Time and then starts lagging again. Played now 1.11 and 1.11c several Times mainly with four people on E2-E4 and it always happens for everyone (The lags).
Maybe you could also make the Claws of Agility from the Castle stronger since they are kind of the worst Item from the three available (Only good thing about them is Attack Speed Bonus but isn't the ATK Speed gonna be capped anyway very early in the Game?) and buffing the Orbs would also be nice since there is not a single Reason to actually buy them right now and in all the Games i played this now i only saw like two people buying them once.

Also what do the Upgrades do? Whenever someone reaches Level 20+ and above it says that they unlocked some Upgrade for the Team but what do they do? Couldn't find anything related to Upgrades in the Castle or Shops and it doesn't seem to make the Abilities stronger either (And Gamechange only mentions Wards getting better with 7th Upgrade)

What would also be nice is making the Human Flags from the Necropolis-Spawner increase the Castle-Regeneration when you place them next to it. I heard that they are supposed to do that but whenever I place all 8 around the Castle it only seems to increase a little bit, kind of not even noteworthy when the Creeps who spawn at the Time where you start to close the Lane can basically down the Castles Health in like 1-2 Seconds when you don't pay attention.


And also please (pleeeassee) remove the Divine Shield from the Arthas-Bossfight. Maybe give him some more Stats, higher DPS or some new fancy AoE Ability but the Divine Shield is just annoying.

Removing the Bash from the Rock-Golems during the second Special Event would also be very appreciated. I once started to cast my Ultimate with the Kil'Jaeden Hero and instantly got stunned by them and remained stunned for more than four/five seconds. Didn't only wasted my Ultimate but also fell enormously behind with the Kills 'cause of kinda being Perma-stunned by them.

Another cool Item to have would be maybe something like Boots of Speed to increase Movement Speed.

 

[Ricola3D]

I am testing 1.12 seriously, and hope to release it before my hollidays (July 29th - August 12th) !

It will bring the following updates:

FIXED hundreds of memory leaks from Sogat's legacy, and dozens from my work.
FIXED desync issues when switching of hero in dual mode.
FIXED random bugs due to code inconsistencies
FIXED Illusions of boosted units don't disapear on boost level change.
FIXED Illusions didn't have some passive abilities of the original.
FIXED hardened skin tooltip fixed.
FIXED bear form's learn icon missplaced.
FIXED Myrmidon's tooltips.
FIXED owl scout's bloodlust can be cast on magic immune.
FIXED Magnataur Destroyers are no more magic immune.
DONE Added safetory for ring & sword event, in case 2 persons reach the conditions at same time.
DONE (All) hero image: clones stats do not take into account your item & skills bonus.
DONE Shield of Immortality: damage return x2.
DONE Knigh's armor (Knight): damage return x2.
DONE Water shield cooldown reduced.
DONE Tomes of power: max stock changed to 3.
DONE corpses removal delay increased from 5s to 8s.
DONE When leaving a special event, your minions/illusions follow you.
DONE Amulet of the wild: start delay and replenish interval divided by 2.
DONE Because of a bug, debilitation aura effect changed to +XX% damages from all sources.
DONE Charged items stack, and can be splitted.
DONE illusions get damage, defense and attack speed bonuses. They also get autocast spells, and bestow auras.
DONE fixed not working level 20 upgrades (Warden, Mountain King)
DONE Warden: level 20 also makes Shadow Strike and Fan on Kniwe effect doubled.
DONE Archmage: Defense Matrix changed to Frigid Protection (very similar). Blizzard: changed appearance.
DONE Banish - spells with damage type NORMAL or ENHANCED now do damages to banished targets (Fan of Rockets, ...)
TODO remove unnecessary waits - replace buggy getters

 

[Ricola3D]

[...]

Amazing feedbacks, thanks !! So:

---

Naga-Myrmidon should be nerfed: okay. I already nerfed the version I copied from XHS 4.80. What do you find too OP now please ? The range of Shock ? Venus ? The damages of Realm of Souls ? Too short cooldowns ? The fact is has Cleave+Avatar ? .. ?

---

Stone-Giant's Toss causes desync: I'll test if I reproduce it in 1.12, and fix it if so.

---

Lags: yes this is my fault, I think this is a regression I added in 1.11 versions. Part of it is due to errors in my code, and the other part is due to instable code from Sogat that broke when I added mine. 1.12 should solve this issue.

---

Make Claws of Attack stronger: I agree.
For your information:
1 - increased attack speed (IAS) can go up to +400% and down to -80%. For comparison: Lightning Sword = +400%, endurance aura = +-50-200%.
2 - Agility also increases a little bit the attack speed
3 - The final attack speed is also limited by the attack animation speed of the heros (each hero have a different one^^)
So what best should we do ? Increase the IAS bonus ? Increase the agility bonus ? Increase the Damage bonus ?

---

Improve orb objects: I agree too, but I'd prefer replacing them with other objects. Do you have any cool objets ideas ? (Boosts ot teleportation, ...)

---

Level 21 to 30 & team upgrade: sorry I will make the text better. Each upgrade level has the following effect:
- Ennemy heroes take +25% damage from spells (doesn't work for the spells with 5% damages)
- Ennemy creeps take +50% damage from spells (doesn't work for the spells with 5% damages)
- Healing spells heal +5000hp
- Your summons gain: 175 damages, 10 armor, 2500hp, 5% IAS

---

Flags healing Castle: good idea, indeed the legend was wrong, but it could be fun to make it real, + make castles not pawnable (=impossible to sell). I add it in my TODO list !

---

Arthas's divine shield removal: wouldn't it spoil the fun ? Also he already has so high stats. I think it would be better to add a method to "destroy" the shield. For example: 5 crystal around arthas, destroy them = the shield breaks. No ?

---

Farm event and stuns: Rock Golems have "Hurl Boulder" that stuns 1 target for 2s, and Centaurs have War Stomp that stuns the area for 2s. Both of them are boring ? Or only the boulders because they can cast many in a row ?

 

[Ricola3D]

God I am spending hours to try to find all the desync issues, and I think I still have some.
It is so difficult to reproduce them alone with 1-3 warcraft games and local network...

 

[lajr]

God I am spending hours to try to find all the desync issues, and I think I still have some.
It is so difficult to reproduce them alone with 1-3 warcraft games and local network...

Bon courage! The elimination of that bug would be very nice.

 

[eubz]

Are you really the creator of this map? Just curious.

 

[Ricola3D]

Are you really the creator of this map? Just curious.

Sogat is the creator of "X Hero Siege" maps. I created "Xnd Hero Siege" with reproducing X Hero Siege 3.33 features, and started modifying it from there

 

[Satariel]

The Naga from 4.80 is just totally broken.

I think the Realm of Souls Damage should be nerfed and the Avatar as well. Maybe make his Stuff get stronger through Upgrades later on as well but as it is now you can get the +10.000 additional Damage from Avatar very fast and he can easily hold several Lanes on his own in Extreme and solo the Waves with his Stomp AoE. Many people i played with viewed him as a Cheat-Hero and then leaved, calling it 'rigged', after i 'shrekt' this Soldier-Boss on E4 with just 400-500 Stats 'cuz of 10k Dmg from Avatar and Realm of Souls doing a lot of DMG as well as keeping me always nearly full Health. Didn't even had to put any effort in that fight.

When it comes to the Orbs maybe you could replace the Orbs with some Items which increases the Health Regeneration of nearby Allies by xy percent, reduces nearby Enemies Damage by xy Percent (Kinda like passive Howl of Terror), an Item which gives Cleaving Attack, Critical Strike Item or some fancy Orb which gives you AoE Chaos Damage.

Blink Items kinda have a twist tho since you can teleport around the Map with them. I think it was this 10.0 Vers which has Boots of TP and i once managed to blink to the Spirit Beast someone was fighting, and losing to, and then helped him winning the fight.
You could maybe also add an Potion of Invulnerability to the Goblin Shops which give like 5 Sec Divine Shield or something like that.


And for Arthas Divine Shield, nah i never thought that this Ability was fun, its often just annoying 'cause it has a pretty long duration. Perhaps giving him some Ability like Holy Light (Not to heal himself but to Damage the Players Heroes with some large nuke DMG)

 

[Ricola3D]

After 3 tests on Bnet and dozens in local network, it seems that 1.21 fixes most of the desync issues pfiou !

Next steps are probably:
- Nerfing Myrmidon a little bit
- Fixing items shuffle & stack on dual hero switch
- Maybe decrease a bit the spell damage boost of 500%
- Flags will heal Castle
- Check for lag issues
...

 

[lajr]

After 3 tests on Bnet and dozens in local network, it seems that 1.21 fixes most of the desync issues pfiou !

Next steps are probably:
- Nerfing Myrmidon a little bit
- Fixing items shuffle & stack on dual hero switch
- Maybe decrease a bit the spell damage boost of 500%
- Flags will heal Castle
- Check for lag issues
...

There should be some way however costly to increase Castles armour so that it doesn't die so easily. A bit of carelessness and all the time you've played is wasted.

 

[Satariel]

Played it once now and had no lags anymore . However the Spawn of the Creeps got a bit out of order apparently. Some Creeps spawned right out of the Place where usually the Dragon during Dragon Attack come from. As well as one Wave spawned directly next to the Castle, had luck some other Guy/Girl was standing right there.
Also when i did the 2.000 Kills Special Event, the Soldier Boss just despawned/disappeared after someone died while i was doing the Event. He died earlier but got revived through Ankh and somehow managed to die again and then ye the Boss despawned and i had to TP out. Counted it like i would have lost the fight (Prolly thought i was the one dying and not the other Hero)

 

[Ricola3D]

Played it once now and had no lags anymore.

Nice to get it confirmed.

The Spawn of the Creeps got a bit out of order apparently. Some Creeps spawned right out of the Place where usually the Dragon during Dragon Attack come from. As well as one Wave spawned directly next to the Castle, had luck some other Guy/Girl was standing right there.

Whhaaat the fuck ?! I am trying to analyze this one, but for the moment I don't see any reason in the source code for this behavior...

Also when i did the 2.000 Kills Special Event, the Soldier Boss just despawned/disappeared after someone died while i was doing the Event.

Thanks for discovering it. After some analysis, this is an old bug from X Hero Siege 3.33. I will solve it in Xnd Hero Siege 1.22

 

[lajr]

I've got a suggestion that would benefit those of us who play extreme 100 or more.

Just reduce the price of rings . The 75000 price tag makes so even opening all the slots, at most 4 players can play it without paladin or lich frozen armour so that they get enough gold after killing the level 2 red dragons so that they are ready for the black dragons. And increase the ring stock, in extreme 100+ players sometimes have the money but other player bought and while they wait they get killed.
A 20000 or 25000 would be ideal. That way even 8 players can succeed at extreme 100+ without paladin.
Similarly to the potions, it would be great if multiple rings stack on one position. the same for the swords.

 

[Satariel]

Reducing the cost of the Ring would make the Game to easy on the other Side for lower Difficulties like around E1-E10. At least 20.000-25.000 Gold is way to cheap. 50.000 could work with a lower CD.
Or make it possible to change the Difficulty after Level 2.

 

[Formidable10]

Hey Ricola it's been a while, I love the new changes to potions, but I do have some requests for changes.

1. Get rid of trolly finger of death. It's really annoying to deal with especially in the early game.

2.Enemy heroes drop more gold, this is mostly referring the the enemy heroes that spawn with the attack waves on extreme difficulty mode. Especially as someone who believes that the reward should scale with the difficulty in games, I believe in strongly that the enemy heroes should drop more gold upon death, especially since they grow stronger based on the difficulty. Somewhere in the range of 150 to 300, with the gold bounty scaling with the difficulty, say 50-100 per level.

3. The Druid of the Claw hero is kinda a joke in this map, he almost never sees play even with the spell changes. Now in fairness, he's a really good tank, but the big issue is his spell damage abilities are kinda lackluster or nonexistent. Making him more of a wall rather than a true fighter. I often have to ask for help from the other players to clear enemy waves, which is really a feel bad moment for me. Note, I am not saying he should be a blood mage or lich levels of spell power, just enough aoe damage to make his viable. Yes I am aware he has a passive that lets him deal aoe damage on basic attack but that heavily relies on RNG, which is way too situational.

Here are some suggestions

1. Give the Druid hero a dedicated AOE damage spell, I am sure there's a lot of nature themed spells you could use, maybe a bear roar shockwave ability, up to you.

2. Have entangling roots target air, I bring this up especially since Dragons are among the most important kills in the game, since they have some of the best gold drops upon death, don't get me wrong, entangling roots is good against bosses, but it's really lackluster in the early to mid game, which is the most important phase on the game when you play the map on higher difficulties.

3. Change the name, I don't get why he was named Malfurion in the first place, since Malfurion wasn't a true Druid of the claw. If you need a suggestion for a new name, I suggest Broll Bearmantle. He's a popular druid of the claw character from WoW and would fit the hero really nicely.

Anyway those are my thoughts, if I have any more notes or feedback i'll let you know.

 

[greedySloth]

Hi Rucola,
made an account just to say this. Love what you did with the map. Great to know someone is still putting the work in.
I'm having a Problem with the 1.21 version, though. When the game starts i stay next to the castle and buy the first furbolgs as soon as they are available. I then spawn one Furbolg to hold my lane and instantly go to start the Heroimage event. But before the event can start i get kicked and just see the scorescreen. I tried to reproduce the bug when i was alone in a game but it didnt work. Seems as though multiple people are needed to trigger it. Also: i was hosting all the games where this happened and all of them were either in extreme 2 or 4. Dont know if it matters, just want to give you all the information. Hope you can sort this out and keep up the great work!!

Also the 2nd: i just reached 2000 kills at the same time as the 2nd Special Event started and the Dragonattack afterwards could move freely despite me being in the arena. They ended up killing our base

 

[lajr]

Reducing the cost of the Ring would make the Game to easy on the other Side for lower Difficulties like around E1-E10. At least 20.000-25.000 Gold is way to cheap. 50.000 could work with a lower CD.
Or make it possible to change the Difficulty after Level 2.

You are exactly right i forgot about lower difficulties, so I think that the choice should be that each enemy hero killed on extreme 1, 2 + drops lot of gold, the greater the level the greater the gold.
That'd be an incentive for high level early game difficulty, say: extreme 15 so that by level 2 everybody has enough gold to buy ring and then increase difficulty to extreme 100+.
At very high levels the ordinary enemy heroes are more difficult to kill than the special events captain heroes.
At extreme 100+ the creeps to farm just before the final wave are weak and drop too little gold, why not make them more challenging depending on the extreme level and also more rewarding, more gold, so that it makes sense to farm.

After final wave Illidan remains impossible to kill at ex100+ without Lich, priestess or return damage aura.
The Panda brewmaster that has as ulti the earthwake and special and level 21 is the most useless hero late game. its ultimate doesn't damage air units that is dragons at level 2, which makes sense since is an earthquake, so useless. And the Storm 21 level special skill immobilizes the hero, much better some sort of avatar with vampiric aura or critical.
Does Maiev avatar of wrath minions have splash damage? it would be very usefull for level 2 event.
Please increase the range of the 2000 kills event ring's auras otherwise there is too much difference at the special event 2.


P.S. The desyncing issues remain, it's not so bad like before but there they are.
btw, change title Xnd Hero Siege 1.11c to 1.21. I've seen some people still playing the old version.

 

[deepstrasz]

Please remove the Tower Defense/Maul tag. You could replace it with Offense.

Spoiler: here goes

1. Weird Warcraft III hero names on models that have nothing to do with the original hero models to match those names.
2. Destromath has Chaos Attack Type. How is that balanced? Same: Arthas.
3. How do you know what spells each hero has? What about sharing control so you could see or some text on the screen when one is selected?
4. Many heroes don't have glow. You could simply add it: How to add Hero Glow without Modeling
5. Warcraft III spells. Why not some custom ones? Spells | HIVE
6. Terrain is very bare, monotonous and flat. See some guides below to improve it.
7. Why not QWERTY spell hotkeys?
8. Spirit Towers have Wave Kills instead of Food?
9. Jacky's Clone doesn't cost any mana.
10. Life Regeneration Aura has an active ability icon. You can make it look passive with this: Button Manager v1.8.2
11. After finishing the 3 minute survival arena the camera went to Magtheridon instead of the castle where the hero previously was. Illusions/Clones were not also teleported back.
12. I feel like there should be more items, some boots of speed, something more than just two shops.
13. What after the final wave? Muradin disappeared and nothing else happened. After 1-2 minutes the hero was teleported to Magtheridon.
    
14. Why is there also an enemy Arthas hero?
15. What's upgrade level [number]?
16. Magtheridon is weaker than the final wave.
17. Afterwards, what? No text about anything or a countdown timer, just like after the final wave. The door to Arthas isn't opened but only the one to the shops and fountains. Same thing, wait for some minutes and then suddenly something happens.
    
18. Then, after killing the Ghouls and Revenants, nothing.
19. Created a clone behind the door to Arthas and brought the boss down to the gate, then started shooting.
20. Killed the boss, nothing.

So while this is supposed to be an improvement of the classic, it still needs some work especially on the visual aspect.

Approved.

---

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If you're not satisfied with the review and wish another opinion, contact the other reviewers or use the staff contact:
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[lajr]

ricola3d you should update the page title to 1.21, some people still play the old version 1.11c. I think they believe you haven't updated it.

 

[Ricola3D]

[...]

Thanks for your review ! Interesting feedbacks, about them:
1) POSTPONED The names are mostly unchanged from XHS 3.33, not to confuse old players.
2) TO TEST I'll check, normally Destromath should have a hero attack type. Arthas, in the opposite, already has a chaos attack type in XHS 3.33. Also, game constants are modified so this attack type is not too cheated.
3) TO DO Very good feedback, I'll think about something, added to my TODO list !
4) POSTPONED I never notified. However this is a legacy from XHS 3.33, it may perturb players to change it.
5) TO DO Right. I only added 3 heroes and a few custom spells so far (bone armor, critical strike aura, ...), but I plan to do more
6) POSTPONED I am noob in terrain editing, I'll wait to be more skilled to to that^^
7) TO DO How do you do that ? What are the "good" hotkeys to use together in QWERTY ?
8) TO DO Never notified neither, I should remove this displayed stat !
9) TO DO Good eyes, I will fix it too
10) TO DO nice, I already I know how to use Button Manager, I'll do it
11) TO DO Camera bug is fixed in 1.22+. About clones coming back, it's not a priority but I can do it.
12) TO DO Totally agreed, I'll remove the 3 useless orbs, and find a way to add a new shop for more items.
13) Actually, you have to walk to one of the circles behind the Ice Obelisks, to go to the boss zone. I can add an explaination text.
14) It is a legacy from XHS 3.33, the before last boss is a Arthas. I can imagine changing its skin.
15) FIXED Indeed it is not clear, I added a text to explain it in version 1.21+
16) TO DO It is right, if you don't play extrem, Magtheridon is pretty weak. Legacy from XHS 3.33, I should change it.
17) TO DO I could add some explaination texts, it is legacy from XHS 3.33
18) I fixed a bug, the timer was invisible. After 2min when you can chat, say goodbye to others, the game ends.
19-20) TO DO Arf annoying bug/cheat, I'll try to fix it^^

 

[deepstrasz]

4) POSTPONED I never notified. However this is a legacy from XHS 3.33, it may perturb players to change it.

How will this perturb anything? It's a visual improvement.

7) TO DO How do you do that ? What are the "good" hotkeys to use together in QWERTY ?

Instead of C for Chain Lighting you can make it have Q if it's the first spell (on the left) and for ultimate ones, which are the last on the right (like Earthquake) you can put the R hotkey.

 

[ZloyIndy]

Just started with an hero with death coil which can't target myself or my NON-UNDEAD allies neither first wave of creeps that happened to be undeads. Also my duomate faced Archer with Inner Fire and Priest's autocast heal. <Removed shitty feedback - Ralle>

 

[Ricola3D]

Just started with an hero with death coil which can't target myself or my NON-UNDEAD allies neither first wave of creeps that happened to be undeads.

Thanks for your feedback. Actually this is Sogat's work, in X Hero Siege 3.33. I didn't change that.

Also my duomate faced Archer with Inner Fire and Priest's autocast heal.

If you are dealing with Windrunner, then again it is Sogat's work. And I don't see the issue with an Archer hero having both Inner Fire & Heal ?

 

[deepstrasz]

<Removed shitty feedback - Ralle>

Well, honestly, you shouldn't have. You've wasted time on a post with little feedback and rage rated. The map is not just one hero.

 

[lajr]

Version 1.23 is useless. Mode selections is gone. Automatically goes to normal dual same heroes and after you pick heroes the creeps never spawn. only the waves. and the commands -extreme +level don't work

btw, there should be the option to change extreme level before level 2 more than once, lets say after hero image. Right now , version 1.22, the only chance to pass extreme 100 is with only 4 heroes, with more there is not enough gold to go around for rings even after killing some dragons. the heroes should drop more gold: at ex100 only 1300 or so. When at level 25 they are already far harder to kill than dragons that drop 5000 gold. With more gold dropped by heroes at extreme levels and the possibility to change it at least twice, it should be possible to do an 8-player extreme 100 or more.

And last, I arrived, v 1.22, with 2 partners at the final dead arthas skull and it was litterally impossible to kill, we didn't have priestess or lich and thorn aura didn't do much. I have bested this game at that ex100 level in previous versions but this time its regeneration was impossible. So for extreme 100, much more powerful items would be necessary. Such as more expensive and more powerful swords or that the farming phase before magtheridon should be as hard as the ex100 heroes but also far more gold rich so that it makes sense to farm.

 

[Ricola3D]

Version 1.23 is useless. Mode selections is gone. Automatically goes to normal dual same heroes and after you pick heroes the creeps never spawn. only the waves. and the commands -extreme +level don't work

Shit sorry I failed and delivered a corrupted file.. I uploaded the good file, and named it version 1.24 for tracability. Really sorry.

About damage return (thorns/spiked carapace/knight's armor/shield of invicibility), I changed it drasticaly in 1.23:
- Before, like in every war3 game, it returned a percentage of damages taken after armor reduction (totaly useless when attacked by normal creeps, or when you have a high armor).
- Now, it returns ability level x (100 + 1% of damages taken before armor reduction). Against normal creeps, it returns a fixed amount. Against bosses with high damages, it returns a decent amount of damages even if your hero have a high armor.
The percentage seems low, but I can assure you that it is more efficient for bosses than a Dryad with 80 000 damages ^^



About extrem levels & gold. Here are the facts, the current behavior:
- You can only change extrem level once.
- You cannot change extrem level after Level 2.
- Gold bounty is not proportional to game difficulty nor player count. Same goes for: normal creeps, dragons, assassins, farm event creeps, survival ghouls & skeletons.
- Dragons per dragon attack is capped at 22 (=extrem 12 or more).
- Assassins per assassin attack is equal to 5 x difficulty, capped at 60 (=extrem 12 or more)
- Gold bounty of ennemy heroes equal to their stat amount (new in Xnd Hero Siege).
- Bosses stats are increased by difficulty level & players count. No maximum limit.
- Bosses gain abilities when extrem level is superior or equal to 4.

I am not sure what we should try modifying first to make ext 100 possible, fun and not to easy ^^

 

[lajr]

I am not sure what we should try modifying first to make ext 100 possible, fun and not to easy ^^

Well, with 4 or less player extreme 100+ is doable. the main limitation with more players is that there is not enough gold to go around and each or at least most to get a ring- So nobody gets a ring on time for level 2 or at least by the time the armour aura effect goes off: result everybody dies. Even after closing lanes 5-6. So if you could create a way to earn more gold per hero, it would be great for 8 players ex100+. With ex200 i was getting only 5000 gold more or less. It would be nice to be able to change difficulty at least twice if not more before level 2. That way after all getting hero image very fast if you somehow give more gold the higher the extreme level goes, there is an incentive to play the highest extreme possible without getting pummeled at the earliest so that you get the most gold possible and just before level 2 get the true difficulty level you want.

In the picture attached, with pitlord demons and marine cloning the demons, 27000 kills in the second special event is possible though there is a very obvious lag when there are 6 or more demons attacking myself, my card is Intel® HD Graphics 610 (Kaby Lake GT1), that was with extreme 200 playing alone.
PS the last part doesn't matter . I've just seen your 1.23 changelog

 

[lajr]

sad to report the de-syncing still happens often enough.

 

[Ricola3D]

[...]extrem[...]

- The new item "Medaillon of Greed" may help a little bit.
- Normal creeps give a bounty of 45 to 400 gold (depending of the creep level). You are right, in comparison, hero bounties are too low. I will increase them.
- I could also increase the dragon per dragon-attack cap (22 currently) ? Since you have 1 dragon attack before level 2, it would increase both gold earned & difficulty at once.
- About using "-extrem XX" command more than once: do you think simply enabling it will make it too easy to reach high levels ? Should I add, when you re-use the command, something like a handicap ? A deadly spawn ?

sad to report the de-syncing still happens often enough.

You are making me cry
Any idea if this is linked to Stone Giant's skills ?
In dual hero mode I guess ?
Does it always happen in the first 10 minutes of the game ?
Gosh these desync issues are so hard to fix, I'll investigate more...