Zerg vs. Tyranids

[JimBob]

These Tyranids sound really tough, but almost exactly similar to the zerg.

Now saying that the Tyranids will win because they out number the zerg is a terrible argument. The Zerg can be just as numerous.

The Zerg are a young race compared to the Tyranids. The Tyranids sound like they've been around forever. The Zerg haven't. So far the Zerg have only conquered a few planets and have only won one war in just a few years of their existence. If you never played starcraft, it was the Zerg who won the Brood War. They could have even vanquished both the Terrans and Protoss off the face of the galaxy, but for some reason Kerrigan held them back.

I don't know much about the Tyranids, but based off what I've heard I think the two races are similar in almost every way and I think it would be a stalemate between the two. In fact the Key to win would be their leader. Who ever has the better leader wins. Its as simple as that. From the sounds of things it seems like the Tyranids would win if the Zerg are being lead by the overmind. Whether the Hive lead Tyranids can beat the Kerrigan lead Zerg is the real argument? I don't think that argument can be solved right now though. We just don't know enough about the Zerg or Kerrigan's plans to bust this argument; and I don't know enough about the Tyranids, so I can't bust it either.

By the way, I hate bugs.

 

[wereguy2]

Ugh, this thread is soo broken... Pretty much everyone who voted for the Zerg doesn't know the full extent of Tyranid power...
Let's put it this way, the Tyranids easily outnumber the Zerg a million to one. This includes their vast Bio-Titans and ships, that utterly dwarf the largest of the Zerg. Plans do not matter, there is no way of hiding from a gargantuan symbiotic fleet that has psykers that are arguably collectively more powerful than the Emperor himself.
Remember, there is more to Warhammer lore than just the models, there are things that can destroy planets.

In response to JimBob, conquering one planet, winning one war? Pff, the Tyranid Hive Fleets were capable of ripping through to the very heart of the Imperium within months, devouring hundreds of planets on their way.

Now, adaptability. Each Hive Fleet was vastly different to the others. Is that not proof that the Tyranids are incredibly adaptable?

Genestealers have been hyped a bit much in this thread; they are not that good. A Hive Fleet would easily function without them, and would, with the extra biomass, be just as effective.

Now I will reiterate; this thread is stupid. In the impossible occurrence of the Tyranids meeting the Zerg, the former would not even bat a metaphorical lid at the former. The 'nids would consume any Zerg forces that stand in their way, but otherwise, would not go out of their way to engage them. If, for some illogical reason they do decide to pursue and annihilate them, the Zerg would be doomed, with no chance of escape or surrender, and certainly no fighting chance.

Oh, and in case you don't realize, the Zerg are a rip-off of the Tyranids...

Thanks for breaking my 1337 postcount...

 

[Crazed_seal2]

Tyranids win end 'o story. OK???
Tyranids evolve faster then anything.
Tyranids have so much more then zerg. SO The Tyranid's win.

 

[VeljkoM]

I still don't get how can Tyranid outnumber zergs when both forces have uncounted numbers?

Looks like nobody even knows about zerg Behemoths (Something has to carry forces and Overlords are to small). And what about Ultralisk and Omegalisks? Infestors, chaglings... and the fact that zergs create units by infesting millions of races and then evolving them to their needs (that's how every zerg can bread in space for example).

And how come Tyranids with such wast army didn't obliterate Imperium or any other faction. I hear that they consumed galaxies but what do you know about those galaxies? Did they even have intelligent life forms?

I am not saying that zerg are more powerful but you are really underestimating them.

And for those who seem not to get the idea this discussion "what if" so no need saying how this all is impossible since we are merely comparing two races (Well original and ripoff).

 

[Narrat0r]

Different alien races never work together. Now Zergs see that, while the Tyranids are crawling over their dead bodies.

 

[JimBob]

Well, what about the Orks vrs Orcs?

 

[Narrat0r]

Well, what about the Orks vrs Orcs?

Bullets vs Magic? Tie.

 

[VeljkoM]

That is off topic.

Also here are couple of easy steps for zergs to beat Tyranids.

1.Infest Tyranids
2.Then assimilate their powerful biology acquired from infested Tyranids to create new zerg and evolve old zerg even more.
3.Repeat first and second step in case Tyranids try to evolve more.
4.Find some poor guy to count all zergs and Tyranids. It may take him sometime...In case of his death appoint new poor guy.

 

[wereguy2]

Infestation of Tyranids would NOT work. If it is done, the infested individuals could easily just jump into a digestion pool. And no, digestion pools cannot become infested, the simply break down matter.

Orks vs Orcs is even more stupid than Tyranids vs Zerg... Orks have titans too, you know? No amount of magic could take down a Gargant...

Omegalisks are about nothing when compared to some of the larger Tyranid Bio-Titans.

Oh, and the Tyranids came very damn close to destroying the Imperium, it took several battlefleets to take down a single Hive Fleet. In fact, the Codex hints that the 3 Hive Fleets that are talked about in it are simply there to scout, and that there is a larger composite fleet that they use for real invasions. Yeah, the codex pretty much hints that the Tyranids could easily be the ultimate force in the Wh40k universe, though yes, this is arguable.

We are most likely (the Tyranid supporters, that is) underestimating the Tyranids... I mean, look that the rest of Warhammer 40k, it's so ridiculously imbalanced, much more so than Starcraft. Thus, comparing Warhammer to pretty much anything - short of anime - is stupid.

No, it does not go into detail about the "other galaxies", but it can be assumed that they were populated.

 

[Tyranid]

http://starcraft2.com/features/planets/char.xml
read Population: Est. 10,000,000,000+ zerg
Now Hive Fleet Behemoth (the largest gathering of Tyranids at one place, but also the smallest Hive Fleet) Population is described as "untold billions". Also another thing about the Tyranid population; The Imperium in the Warhammer Universe has thousands of Forge Worlds, which are dedicated to producing weaponry and ammunition and other war equipment. However it is outright stated in the Tyranid Codex that even if a single bullet would kill one Tyranid, the Imperium wouldn't have enough bullets to kill off every Tyranid in the Tyranid Main Fleet (which is essentially the Tyranid's endgame).

So yeah, the Tyranids win by population.

Also in terms of size the Tyranid's have Hierophants: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/d/d7/Tyranid_Hierophant.jpg which is the most basic and smallest Biotitan there is.
Then there are even bigger creatures:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/5/59/RedTerror.jpg

Anyways, the world of Warhammer 40,000 simply is an overpowered universe. There are armies ranging in the billions, yet there are individuals who can singlehandedly destroy these armies (alpha plus psykers). There are gigantic war machines and powerful psykers. Basically, how Warhammer fans put it:
Looney Tunes > Warhammer 40k > everything else.

 

[wereguy2]

Looney Tunes > Warhammer 40k > everything else.

How about Asterix?

 

[Tyranid]

How about Asterix?

Those guys have already been defeated atleast once.

 

[PurplePoot]

Indeed, the word he was looking for is "consumption".

Also, comparing the two is stupid; numerically, the Tyranids being superior tells you simply that WH40k operates on a universe with larger numbers, and thus the two cannot be accurately compared that way.

With equal forces, the Zerg win hands down, but that tells you nothing other than the Tyranids are not adapted to fighting anything which is not humanoid, and thus the two cannot be accurately compared that way.

Conclusion: comparing cross-universe is stupid.

Just quoting this for all the idiots who are still arguing.

Also, I voted for Zerg just because the Tyranid lovers are so bitchy about it.

 

[Tyranid]

Just quoting this for all the idiots who are still arguing.

Also, I voted for Zerg just because the Tyranid lovers are so bitchy about it.

Except Tyranids are adapted to fight literally ANYTHING. There are way more than just humanoid races in Warhammer 40,000. There are lizards which have freaking turrets on their back. Hell there ar even supermagic jellyfishes which wiped out most life once in the universe already.
Tyranids have adapted to fight against all of these. Now what have Zergs adapted to fight against? Oh right humans and blue humanoids (and some alien race which we've never even see and only know their name: Xel'naga).

And even with equal numbers alot of the Tyranids are still bigger and come with more tricks.

I really wish people would read about the lore in BOTH universes before comparing them.

 

[PurplePoot]

I actually read a lot of Tyranid stuff a while back because I was interested in them, but I only saw references to them fighting the Imperium and to a very small extent the Eldar and the Orcs.

Point is, comparing cross-universe is stupid because the universes are balanced to their storylines. As a design I like the Zerg better because the Tyranids are a little excessively ridiculous, and because WH40K feels the need to stick guns everywhere, even where they don't belong. However, the Tyranids are neat too.

 

[TwistedImage]

The Warhammer universe sounds completely idiotic.

I mean, seriously, none of these things sound like balanced life forms.

 

[PurplePoot]

They basically just multiplied the numbers from, say, Starcraft by a few orders of magnitude (so that combat is systemwide or galaxy-wide rather than planetwide). Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Crazed_seal2]

Could a Mod please close this thread before further arguments come up. X_X

 

[PurplePoot]

Could a mod please close every thread before discussion starts?

 

[wereguy2]

They basically just multiplied the numbers from, say, Starcraft by a few orders of magnitude (so that combat is systemwide or galaxy-wide rather than planetwide). Nothing to see here, move along.

Actually, Starcraft just divided the numbers from Warhammer 40k by a few orders of magnitude, as was mentioned before.
Blizzard is NOT original...

 

[PurplePoot]

Actually, Starcraft just divided the numbers from Warhammer 40k by a few orders of magnitude, as was mentioned before.
Blizzard is NOT original...

Oh, the old "Zergs are stolen from Tyranids" bull. Well, I've seen arguments from both sides, including the "the Tyranids codex second edition (which was the one in which they acquired their, for lack of a better word, Zergy look) was printed after Starcraft was unveiled" and have been forced to conclude that both sides are morons, everyone steals from everyone, and I don't give a fuck as long as the game is fun and balanced and the story is good. You, on the other hand, seem to enjoy cherry-picking your sources like almost everyone else.

It is very clear that I was not making any implication of originality on either side and was simply making an analogy in terms that the person I was speaking to would understand, and your pathetic attempt to twist my words is an obvious attempt (and failure) to rather childishly score points for this argument.

 

[wereguy2]

Do you have to be so critical...

 

[PurplePoot]

Yes. I'm in a grumpy and/or blunt mood today and am thus not masking the truth with politeness.

 

[LordDz]

Yes. I'm in a grumpy and/or blunt mood today and am thus not masking the truth with politeness.

//Offtopic: You seem to have been in a grumpy mood a long time.

Ontopic:

Tyranids have adapted to fight against all of these. Now what have Zergs adapted to fight against? Oh right humans and blue humanoids (and some alien race which we've never even see and only know their name: Xel'naga).

And even with equal numbers alot of the Tyranids are still bigger and come with more tricks.

I really wish people would read about the lore in BOTH universes before comparing them.

But as Zerg "devour" other races into themself, doesn't that mean that they actually could adapt to fight the new races? I mean, it's kind of hard adapting to something you have never faced before (I'm pretty sure that the Tyranids didn't adapt before facing their enemy once).

Anyway, this is becoming more and more like the "My dad is better than your dad".

But on scale, yeah Tyranids would win. But it's a different game and universe.

 

[Tleno]

Since both races have parasitic organizms that can infect others, I say that they would infect each other, creating a new race and merrging Overmind's mind with... what do Tyranids have?

 

[PurplePoot]

The Tyranids have a collective hive mind.

--

LordDz, it goes up and down. It's up right now.

 

[Azeroc]

Tyranids are just rip-off from SC Zergs...

 

[TwistedImage]

Look, stop the ripoff talk.

For one, it's useless, no one has proof.

Secondly, it makes you look like an idiot.

Lastly, EVERYTHING, literally EVERYTHING the human mind can come up with has been thought of before.

 

[Em!]

Actually no offense to Starcraft fans, it has been confirmed a long time ago that starcraft was inspired by Warhammer40k and other sources (Should add that the whole game was not inspired by another, just some of the races) but should that matter. How protoss have gateways and warp in there structures was inspired by how the elders travel through gateways and etc. Starcraft is not a ripoff, humans have always been there and having insect like alien life forms is not totally original, mean look at aliens the movie or starship troopers. Slight inspiration from other sources never hurt anyone, besides how i read it, the Zerg concept was from alien the movie and built from there with some amount of inspiration from tyranids.
Don´t protoss look and behave just a bit like predators, ever thought of that, but who can say that warhammer was totally original either.

Eldar and Dark Eldar are basically just futuristic elves, although a good idea but not entirely original, seeing as this is still just basically elves, give orc guns and u got orcs with guns. Necron are the futuristic undead version and there warriors slightly resemble the terminator but i am going offtopic here, i think Tyranids would win Zerg anyway, Zerg is still young so who knows how it turns out in the end.

 

[PurplePoot]

Actually no offense to Starcraft fans, it has been confirmed a long time ago that starcraft was inspired by Warhammer40k and other sources (Should add that the whole game was not inspired by another, just some of the races) but should that matter. How protoss have gateways and warp in there structures was inspired by how the elders travel through gateways and etc. Starcraft is not a ripoff, humans have always been there and having insect like alien life forms is not totally original, mean look at aliens the movie or starship troopers. Slight inspiration from other sources never hurt anyone, besides how i read it, the Zerg concept was from alien the movie and built from there with some amount of inspiration from tyranids.
Don´t protoss look and behave just a bit like predators, ever thought of that, but who can say that warhammer was totally original either.

Eldar and Dark Eldar are basically just futuristic elves, although a good idea but not entirely original, seeing as this is still just basically elves, give orc guns and u got orcs with guns. Necron are the futuristic undead version and there warriors slightly resemble the terminator but i am going offtopic here, i think Tyranids would win Zerg anyway, Zerg is still young so who knows how it turns out in the end.

Actually, no offence to you, but I'll safely consider you full of shit until you back your story up. Also no offence to you, but you seem to have forgotten that WH40K wasn't all made in a day and even if you aren't full of shit it doesn't imply that, for example, the Zerg were inspired by the Tyranids.

 

[Em!]

*Stylistic Inspiration

As is customary with many Blizzard works, many of StarCraft's concepts and artistic elements were inspired by, or were otherwise similar to, those found in existing science fiction. Elements from the movie Aliens recurred frequently in the terrans. Elements from Starship Troopers, both Heinlein's novel and the movie by the same name, and the miniatures war game Warhammer 40,000 may also be found. These may be some of the more prominent examples. The full extent of the inspiring corpus is too large to list or examine here, and the above should merely be indicative of its breadth. *

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_universe

Altough i was writing by memory and it had been a long time since i read this so a few of the things may have been incorrect but that doesn´t make me full of shit, altough you said no offence, i still found it to be rather offensive, meeh i should have listened to myself and avoid the forums, there is nothing but immature children and teenagers in it, no offense.

 

[PurplePoot]

Altough i was writing by memory and it had been a long time since i read this so a few of the things may have been incorrect but that doesn´t make me full of shit, altough you said no offence, i still found it to be rather offensive, meeh i should have listened to myself and avoid the forums, there is nothing but immature children and teenagers in it, no offense.

There's a difference between grumpiness and immaturity. Second, the "Actually, no offence" was a sarcastic imitation of your post to indicate my dislike of that phrase (I could care less if I offend people, since if I do they probably deserve it... you can find offence pretty much everywhere and I'm not going to act like it's all flowers out there if you can't take it). Thirdly, quoting off a foggy memory does make you full of shit because our memory's inaccuracy is well-documented and public knowledge. Lastly, people who offend you are not necessarily immature, and you could probably make a good argument that people who claim that they are are in fact immature to an extent themselves.

In addition, your "source" is just someone's opinion and does not in turn actually cite anything. Still waiting on some actual evidence.

 

[Em!]

The fact that you started to offend me in the first place without cause just screams immaturity if you had found it offensive it would have been better to just say it instead of being a dick about it.Now then *going too shift the burden of proof* but can you prove to me that my source was just someones opinion and not someones facts?, you don´t look like the sort of guy to even remotely admit the possibility that you might be wrong nor am i. So whether you are grumpy or immature makes no difference, it all goes down to being rude. *quit continually editing your post, i gotta keep up to all your new insults.*

My source never implies that his facts are false or made up so how can you just discard it just like that. How much more proof do you need do you want a blizzard employ to come and knocking at your door and say hi, some of our creations were inspired by another source, even then i don´t think you would believe him.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Heh, when I played starcraft in early days I thought they drew inspiration from Alien for zerg and Predator for protoss. Yes, those were the days when internet was a luxury and I had no clue for thing called warhammer yet.

And please stop with these rip-offs. So, warcraft humans are ripoff from medieval humans which means that warcraft it's horrible sucking game. -.-

About Zerg and Tyranids: It's pretty common to add some insectoid race as a human enemy in sci-fi lores, it's from human natural fear for those little creeping animals, their slimy, sticky, shiny features and colonies. Usually set in sci-fi rather in medieval fantasy since sci-fi is more realistic and immersive and belief he can very rapidly adapt to new conditions, being able to compete against modern and futuristic human arsenal.

 

[PurplePoot]

You are a very stubborn guy, Can you disprove me wrong then?

Aha. Logical fallacies, I figured it would come to this.

You, sir, just tried to shift the burden of proof (and in this case you more specifically committed an appeal to ignorance).

neither of us have any evidence to prove each other wrong

Ah, but I don't need to prove you wrong. You need to prove yourself right (the links above explain why).

and you don´t look like the sort of guy to even remotely admit the possibility that you might be wrong

Unless given satisfactory evidence.

nor am i. So whether you are grumpy or immature makes no difference, it all goes down to being rude, thanks for playing but i am bored with you, meaning i am out.

You run along now.

 

[Azeroc]

Look, stop the ripoff talk.

For one, it's useless, no one has proof.

Secondly, it makes you look like an idiot.

Lastly, EVERYTHING, literally EVERYTHING the human mind can come up with has been thought of before.

So, saying my thoughts that something is ripoff makes me stupid? Well, you just insulted more than half of the world that they are stupid. And also you insult Einstein and even many others, saying that their ideas and theories were thought already.

 

[TwistedImage]

Look, stop the ripoff talk.

For one, it's useless, no one has proof.

Secondly, it makes you look like an idiot.

Lastly, EVERYTHING, literally EVERYTHING the human mind can come up with has been thought of before.

Azeroc, you have failed. How could you misinterpret "ripoff" and make it "opinion?" Wow.

Also, I never said you are stupid. Learn English before trying to bend it your way.

 

[PurplePoot]

So, saying my thoughts that something is ripoff makes me stupid? Well, you just insulted more than half of the world that they are stupid. And also you insult Einstein and even many others, saying that their ideas and theories were thought already.

Actually the better part of Special Relativity was not done by Einstein. Also, why are people so obsessed with him? I doubt you could name anything significant that he did without googling (or referring to relativity, since I just mentioned).

Also, statistically almost exactly half of the world is stupider than average. Neat, isn't it?

 

[Em!]

Can´t let this one go, i´ve found another source. If this still is not enough i admit defeat. Here http://encyclopedia.wizards.pro/index.php/StarCraft , look near the bottom of the page to the influence section.

 

[PurplePoot]

Doesn't cite any sources and is obviously bullshit for claiming the Terrans are inspired by the space marines when essentially every futuristic human civilization in popular science fiction (take Starship Troopers for example) gets space marines and such. Zerg are also more likely influenced by Starship troopers and this still doesn't deal with the fact that the Zerg may have been around before the Tyranids. Here, let's analyze that claim (about Zergs predating Tyranids stylistically):

Here are some Second Edition Tyranids (first published in 1993):

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/ShadowsInTheWarp/Tyranid-Archive/Warhammer-40K/2ndEdNids/

Not very Zergy. In fact, they almost resemble machines.

Now here are some Third Edition Tyranids (published in 2001):

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/ShadowsInTheWarp/Tyranid-Archive/Warhammer-40K/3rdEdNids/

Much more Zergy, but you'll notice that they are still pretty blocky.

I suspect that ideas were taken from both sides by both sides at various points.

--

Here are some other editions if you are interested. Can't find their publish dates but it doesn't really matter since they were all either before or after the two above.

First edition. They don't resemble modern 'nids at all.

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/ShadowsInTheWarp/Tyranid-Archive/Warhammer-40K/1st_ed_nids/

Four edition. Extremely Zergy. Starting to smooth.

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/ShadowsInTheWarp/Tyranid-Archive/Warhammer-40K/4thEdNids/

Fifth edition. Look almost like Zerg with guns attached. Very smooth.

http://album.warpshadow.com/v/ShadowsInTheWarp/Tyranid-Archive/Warhammer-40K/5th_ed/

 

[Em!]

Zerg are also more likely influenced by Starship troopers

Here i was simply fighting to state that Starcraft got a lot of inspiration from various sci fi fictions, including Warhammer but here you are stating that the possibility of the Zerg to have been influenced by Starship troopers, and i went through a hail of gunfire only to find you to practically to agree to what i have been debating about in this imaginary courthouse, seriously i felt like a lawyer needing facts to prove my clients innocent *Client being me aswell*.

I had written a lot more but seeing as both my sources are apparently bullshit and i did promise that if you still refused to come to the jedi side i´d admit defeat.

 

[PurplePoot]

I don't deny any outside influence... that would just be stupid. I'm just saying that the Zerg aren't Tyranid clones or anything.

Also, the reason I say your sources are bullshit is because they're opinion articles with no backup, and opinions are a dime a dozen.

 

[Tyranid]

So I herd u gais liek the good ol' who ripped who argument. Anyways, Warhammer 40,000 is based alot on Starship Troopers. No, not the movie but the novel which came out in 1950s. The novel is perhaps one of the first sources of Power Armor in fiction. Also the movie had a race of buglike aliens who used guns (something similar to Tyranids).

Also the Xenomorphs from the Aliens movies (first movie was out in 1977 I think) resemble both Zerg and Tyranids alot. Both have exoskeletons which resemble the Xenomorphs alot. Then again, even the Xenomorphs are based on H.R. Gigers work (who nonetheless, designed the Xenomorphs for the movie).

In the end, we can go on and on about this, but no one is still going to change their minds.

 

[TwistedImage]

So I herd u gais liek the good ol' who ripped who argument. Anyways, Warhammer 40,000 is based alot on Starship Troopers. No, not the movie but the novel which came out in 1950s. The novel is perhaps one of the first sources of Power Armor in fiction. Also the movie had a race of buglike aliens who used guns (something similar to Tyranids).

Also the Xenomorphs from the Aliens movies (first movie was out in 1977 I think) resemble both Zerg and Tyranids alot. Both have exoskeletons which resemble the Xenomorphs alot. Then again, even the Xenomorphs are based on H.R. Gigers work (who nonetheless, designed the Xenomorphs for the movie).

In the end, we can go on and on about this, but no one is still going to change their minds.

It's all been thought of before.

/thread

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Poot, I love you so much.

Also, if you guys are still open to opinions, TVTropes (the be-all end-all of opinion sites) is of the opinion that the Zerg and the Tyranids both take stylistic inspiration from each other, which makes a lot of sense considering that they both came to be around the same time.

 

[PurplePoot]

Poot, I love you so much.

Also, if you guys are still open to opinions, TVTropes (the be-all end-all of opinion sites) is of the opinion that the Zerg and the Tyranids both take stylistic inspiration from each other, which makes a lot of sense considering that they both came to be around the same time.

That sounds like it's basically my opinion, so I may as well support it.

 

[Tleno]

Poot, I love you so much.

Also, if you guys are still open to opinions, TVTropes (the be-all end-all of opinion sites) is of the opinion that the Zerg and the Tyranids both take stylistic inspiration from each other, which makes a lot of sense considering that they both came to be around the same time.

Yup. They both were probably inspired by bugs, spiders, and other creatures, thats all.

 

[Ghost765]

ok, going alll the way back to the first page, where wereguy2 mentioned HOW MAH GREY KNIGHTS CAN ONE-HIT CARNIFEXs.
its a proven fact, that Force Weapons can "kill out-right". Its not instant kill, its killing out-right. SO, technically force weapons CAN kill anything with the right roll. ha.
yah. zerg would get wtf pwnt by nids.

 

[Crazed_seal2]

Actually i read genestealers are really powerful, a squad of twenty genestealers is only a few points thats including upgrades, think of it, 20 X 4 or 6 attacks, plus they have rending special rule so they are like leet! Tyranids win anyway.

 

[wereguy2]

I don't particularly like using genestealers, they are far too expensive for their fragility. Mine have 4+ saves, and still get bolter-raped all the time.