Warcraft III Reforged - Community Feedback

[deepstrasz]

One more thing. It looks like the Pig Farms have domesticated pigs now. The Warcraft II manual says they hold wild boars

 

[Suedomsael]

Let's face it.

Warcraft 3 was made to be an actual homage and story sequel that is directly referencing and loyal to its past game prequels. (Warcraft 1 and 2)

Now, WC3 Reforged is being made as a highly updated reskin of Warcraft 3 with a huge touch from the story and game design aspects of WoW that aint loyal to the old elements and factors in the original Warcraft games.

Like it or not, whether anyone would agree with me on this or not, Reforged is more like a WoWcraft 3 instead of a Warcraft 3.

 

[deepstrasz]

Warcraft 3 was made to be an actual homage and story sequel that is directly referencing and loyal to its past game prequels. (Warcraft 1 and 2)

Well, not without retcons especially because they introduced external material like books: War of the Ancients (was in the making so not very sure how much of it was intended to be in as the manual chapter is short), Day of the Dragon (short manual chapter), Lord of the Clans (short manual chapter; sure there is that cancelled game but the book went on a much more different path). Interestingly, there's no mention of Of Blood and Honor It was written by Chris Metzen by the way.

They also missed a lot of stuff in both the manual and the campaigns.

Like it or not, whether anyone would agree with me on this or not, Reforged is more like a WoWcraft 3 instead of a Warcraft 3.

That's pretty true but on the graphical/visual side as they didn't touch the story.

 

[Suedomsael]

Well, not without retcons especially because they introduced external material like books: War of the Ancients (was in the making so not very sure how much of it was intended to be in as the manual chapter is short), Day of the Dragon (short manual chapter), Lord of the Clans (short manual chapter; sure there is that cancelled game but the book went on a much more different path). Interestingly, there's no mention of Of Blood and Honor It was written by Chris Metzen by the way.

They also missed a lot of stuff in both the manual and the campaigns.

That's pretty true but on the graphical/visual side as they didn't touch the story.

The only retcon that Day of the Dragon (2001) did was it actually happened AFTER Beyond the Dark Portal while in WC2 game, it was believed that Alexstrasza had been freed AFTER Tides of Darkness and BEFORE Beyond the Dark Portal. which IMO is just a tolerable minor retcon that can be stated that the HORDE in WC2:BtDP were mistaken in their judgement.

Lord of the Clans (2001) was an obvious replacement for the cancelled adventure game, since the game is cancelled, the novel didnt really retconned anything.

As for War of the Ancients trilogy novels (2004)... hmmm Im not sure how much influence Blizzard had on Richard Knaak during that time... but I think Knaak pretty much did the story in his own way... which is why the WoA summary in WC3 manual is very different from the novel trilogy of Knaak. Richard did a fine job in the story of Day of the Dragon so Blizz probably just let him did his thing in his own way during the time.

Of Blood and Honor was more like a small story scale focusing on Tirion and Eitrigg to which both characters didnt really had any role in WC3. It didnt really retconned anything, its just that those two didnt had any big impacts on WC3. The closest thing you will see their story related in WC3 was the place called Mardernholde Keep shown in WC3 Lordaeron map close to Stratholme.


As for the Reforged story... dude, i can confidently bet my entire soul onto anyone here when i say that many of the story aspects of the original WC3 will be RETCONNED so it can be connected with WoW. Example... Black Citadel of Outland will be called as Black Temple, and the entire map of Outland will be change as how it appears in WoW, a sealess Draenor instead of the hellish red planet remnant as it appeared in WC3. Im sure of it.

 

[deepstrasz]

The only retcon that Day of the Dragon (2001) did was it actually happened AFTER Beyond the Dark Portal while in WC2 game, it was believed that Alexstrasza had been freed AFTER Tides of Darkness and BEFORE Beyond the Dark Portal. which IMO is just a tolerable minor retcon that can be stated that the HORDE in WC2:BtDP were mistaken in their judgement.

But the orcs had to get the dragons back in BtDP and it's when they met Deathwing and the black dragons as well. That's why with fewer orc/Horde numbers they could storm Dalaran for instance (yeah, it was being rebuilt but still) due to them having two strains of dragons. Sure, Warcraft II only mentions Deathwing as being a black dragon but it also mentions Alexstrasza being the most powerful creature in Azeroth and Deathwing second to the red dragon queen. Anyways, nothing about Alexstrasza afterward. Plus some of the red dragons were on Black Rock Spire eating humans from time to time What did the dragon queen do? I guess eat humans from time to time. In the RoC manual and WoW they made the dragons into aspects and kind, protectors of life, bla bla.
It's not quite a minor retcon because it shows that Ner'zhul needed the dragons to be able to face the humans and move fast from place to place. They were flying on the black dragon's back, for example.

As for War of the Ancients trilogy novels (2004)... hmmm Im not sure how much influence Blizzard had on Richard Knaak during that time... but I think Knaak pretty much did the story in his own way... which is why the WoA summary in WC3 manual is very different from the novel trilogy of Knaak. Richard did a fine job in the story of Day of the Dragon so Blizz probably just let him did his thing in his own way during the time.

He was probably writing the first book during the development of the Frozen Throne or something like that.

Of Blood and Honor was more like a small story scale focusing on Tirion and Eitrigg to which both characters didnt really had any role in WC3. It didnt really retconned anything, its just that those two didnt had any big impacts on WC3. The closest thing you will see their story related in WC3 was the place called Mardernholde Keep shown in WC3 Lordaeron map close to Stratholme.

I think, it's the first Warcraft story about humans and orcs being friendly to each other without interest being on top.

Black Citadel of Outland will be called as Black Temple, and the entire map of Outland will be change as how it appears in WoW, a sealess Draenor instead of the hellish red planet remnant as it appeared in WC3. Im sure of it.

Ah, the maps... yeah, I know. But that's not really touching the story. The places will still be there.
The Black Citadel is mentioned in character quotes, so removing that name is kind of uncalled for.

 

[Suedomsael]

Ah, the maps... yeah, I know. But that's not really touching the story. The places will still be there.
The Black Citadel is mentioned in character quotes, so removing that name is kind of uncalled for.

What I actually meant by here is the map of Outland in the loading screen in the campaign. notice that the outland wc3 map in the loading screen is very different to the sealess draenor of wow outland.

in the orig wc3, you have plces called such as the Mountains of Flame, various scattered draenei villages, hellfire peninsula to the southwest area of Outland, and all the dimensional gateways that Illidan closed are all just in the outskirts of the Black Citadel.

I HIGHLY prefer that original overview map of Outland than the sealess draenor of WoW.

 

[deepstrasz]

n the orig wc3, you have plces called such as the Mountains of Flame, various scattered draenei villages, hellfire peninsula to the southwest area of Outland, and all the dimensional gateways that Illidan closed are all just in the outskirts of the Black Citadel.

I HIGHLY prefer that original overview map of Outland than the sealess draenor of WoW.

If it's considerably different, then it's not too good, yes.
For instance there have been many geographical modifications between the three Warcraft RTS games.

 

[ToldYouSo]

IMHO Blizzard are really trying to keep wasting all great potentials they have during last 10 years, as they believe to make a new look ("reforged") on every game they develop, but in reality they also stop following the simple rules they once made. And this is because of a big hurry, when making all the projects at the same time.
God damn it, they won't release reforged during this year, and here are simple points that probably requires a LOT of time:
1) Its such a mess when land detalisation is so low, comparing to high detalisation of all units. As it looks to me a vanilla WC3 with WOW imported models.
2) All the portraits are just cameras, bonded to model's face. Looks plastic.
3) Most Animations are unassuming,
Let's just admit they already waste all the potential hype around Reforged, as Blizzard just mess around.

 

[STEVENS0N]

IMHO Blizzard are really trying to keep wasting all great potentials they have during last 10 years, as they believe to make a new look ("reforged") on every game they develop, but in reality they also stop following the simple rules they once made. And this is because of a big hurry, when making all the projects at the same time.
God damn it, they won't release reforged during this year, and here are simple points that probably requires a LOT of time:
1) Its such a mess when land detalisation is so low, comparing to high detalisation of all units. As it looks to me a vanilla WC3 with WOW imported models.
2) All the portraits are just cameras, bonded to model's face. Looks plastic.
3) Most Animations are unassuming,
Let's just admit they already waste all the potential hype around Reforged, as Blizzard just mess around.

Agree.. i was so hyped after many years of waiting for Warcraft IV or at least remaster now I just hope they will postpone it and polish most things before final relase. And maybe in longer future Blizz will deliver some high quality DLC with new campaign or even some stories from wow but i guess we will end up with some microtransaction skins meh

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'll admit - some look nice, but...

How hard is it to understand that you're making models and animations for a TOP-DOWN RTS GAME, not a freaking first person adventure game? And how come it's so difficult for them to figure out that the most important thing is not how many details you put in, how varied you make things look or whether you stay true to the original or not - it's MAKING SURE EVERYONE CAN CLEARLY SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

Now, look at the Necropolis training animation. Look again. And again. Did you see it? Because it took me like 5-6 rewatches FROM A CLOSE-UP camera to figure out what the animation is (tip: flickering eyes, lol). Now imagine trying to do that from the game camera... I seriously hope there's a missing special effect there, because damn - if someone at Blizzard legitimately thought this is okay then he/she needs to rethink his/her career choice.

---

Sorry for the rant, but come on - I can take hideous rainbow-warrior hippogryphs or shoulder pads bigger than Mannoroth's left ass-cheek if at the very least I can easily tell what's going on. And looking at Reforged, there are many moments where I just can't - oh, and as a quick reminder, we're not talking about a game that's in early alpha or whatever, but a game that's supposed to launch this month.

P.S. And don't get me started on unit portraits... Like, look up one of the imported BE missions and take a peak and Vashj portrait. It's not even funny.

 

[deepstrasz]

I'll admit - some look nice, but...

They cut down on some light FX animations. Human main building variations have three lights in different places. They only kept the one at the doors and it's not all that visible either.
I mean look at the new Altar of Kings. That's even more visible than the original. They should do something like that for train/research animations.

• Barracks seems OK.
  
• Lumber Mill and Blacksmith too.
  
• Workshop's fine.
• Arcane Sanctuary's FX should be less pale, more like the original.
• Gryphon Aviary should have that blue light instead because the new building already has too much light from those fires.
• There are weird FXs in human build animations as if they are welding. For medieval buildings, that doesn't work. Could work for more steampunk ones like the Workshop, though.
  
• Tauren Totem's animation should have the fires either even longer or their colour concentration higher like in the original.
• Necropolis train/research animation needs work. It's not obvious. Like the original or make those eyes glow light outward. The spirits circling around the building should be a different colour than the selection circle and corrupted waterfalls. What's the logic for only the Halls of the Dead to have the spirits circling around and the other building variations none?
  
• The new green for the Necropolis upgrade animation is ugly, too saturated and the model lines)?) are too thick. Should be soft and more transparent like the original.
  
• It doesn't make sense for the Ziggurat tower upgrades to basically look like the building is totally being rebuild from the foundation upward. It should look more like how humans and orcs do it, so to speak. As it is now, probably players will not know if a ziggurat is being built or upgraded to a tower.
  
• The Crypt's green FX is confusing because the train/research animation also has green FX. Tone that stand animation green FX down and make it more evident when the previously mentioned animations run. Also, the gate FX is too pale.
• Although the Boneyard FX is not bad, it was more interesting with that spirit trail FX going from one pillar to another.
• If the Tree of Life is being upgraded, why does it have to go through a leaf cut and cat like being in Kamehameha channeling posture? It looks bizarre, especially when trees are growing to cover the Tree of Life as if creating a sort of cocoon. What's that weird red Wisp circling around there?
  
• Tree of Life and its upgrades should have better visible FX when training/researching. That blue mist is pale and I'm not sure it actually works. Maybe, something more druidic, like rain, leaves falling, circling around?
• The Tree of Eternity's Fairy Fire FX (butterfly fairies?) is too small or at least not that visible.
• The Altar of Elders FX is OK but maybe some moon light FX over the statue would be more fitting to the theme.
• Hopefully, the Ancient of Wind research/train FX is team coloured although it's confusing for one building to have this and the others not.

As for the human icons (video):

• Build icon looks to much like a/the Repair one.
• The only gripe I have with the new Polymorph icon is that it's orange while there's no FX like that for the spell. It mostly is a sort of gray smoke.
• Don't remember the exact FX colour for the Reforged Divine Shield but it would be nice to be pinkish to remain more true to the original, thus the icon should have that hue as well as opposed to the yellow-orange which is too similar to Holy Light.
• There's already one shield icon on the Paladin. Devotion Aura should be something else and have that purple aura instead of the blue one.
• Bash never looked too specific. But it's OK. I guess changing it now would be superfluous. I'm referring to the "point of impact" to be representative of the stun effect.

On the naga and draenei spells (video):

1. The poison FX should be more visible. On green grass it becomes a bit hard to distinguish.
   
2. Parasite FX is a washed out copy.
3. The Cyclone model looks weird. The old one was transparent. This one is white, opaque but you can see the inside because it twists in such a way that makes you think you've purposely scrolled the camera to see in. But the problem is that it's not uniform and it has more than one "exits" which you can see through inside its body.
   
4. The Submerge and Emerge animations seem a bit spasmodic.
5. The Crushing Wave FX seems more low quality than the original, it's darker but less saturated and it's not as wide meaning that it might not cover the spell's actual AoE.
6. Frost Bolt also should look better.
7. Water and Sea Elemental birth animations could be nicer like, how water would come from the ground going upward forming the elemental. Now, it's some sort of mini tornado but it happens so fast that it's almost as if the model doesn't quite have a birth animation, maybe because there's also transparency involved. Not saying the original is better.
8. The Dragon Turtle actually gets its legs in the ground when devouring. It might work when on water but when on soil, it looks unnatural.
9. Abolish Magic's ball FX should be a tad bigger because it has to be properly seen from the bird's eye view.
10. Forked Lightning is too pale. Real Lightning can't go unnoticed, it's like a white or anyway, coloured blinding light.
11. Maybe Mana Shield should be less pale.
12. Tornado looks weird. For some reason this and the Cyclone, are one of the models that don't look right at all.
13. Again, Immolation caster FX is mostly on the legs which shouldn't be.
14. The FX coming out of the draenei when casting Slow, comes a bit later and not a the same time when the hand is basically casting the spell.
15. Invisibility FX looks strange on units as if their textures use a negative filter.
16. Shadow Strike still doesn't look right.
17. Reincarnation doesn't have the light beam FX anymore. It was easier to know where the hero would reincarnate.

 

[Venombite]

I'll admit - some look nice, but...

How hard is it to understand that you're making models and animations for a TOP-DOWN RTS GAME, not a freaking first person adventure game? And how come it's so difficult for them to figure out that the most important thing is not how many details you put in, how varied you make things look or whether you stay true to the original or not - it's MAKING SURE EVERYONE CAN CLEARLY SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

Now, look at the Necropolis training animation. Look again. And again. Did you see it? Because it took me like 5-6 rewatches FROM A CLOSE-UP camera to figure out what the animation is (tip: flickering eyes, lol). Now imagine trying to do that from the game camera... I seriously hope there's a missing special effect there, because damn - if someone at Blizzard legitimately thought this is okay then he/she needs to rethink his/her career choice.

---

Sorry for the rant, but come on - I can take hideous rainbow-warrior hippogryphs or shoulder pads bigger than Mannoroth's left ass-cheek if at the very least I can easily tell what's going on. And looking at Reforged, there are many moments where I just can't - oh, and as a quick reminder, we're not talking about a game that's in early alpha or whatever, but a game that's supposed to launch this month.

P.S. And don't get me started on unit portraits... Like, look up one of the imported BE missions and take a peak and Vashj portrait. It's not even funny.

I like almost all of the training animations. Look at the Halls of the Dead, it has green souls floating around while training units, unlike the other two stages, so thath means that it's not finished yet. Also the Ziggurats are lacking an upgrade animation, it's not the final build. The biggest problem with the Undead buildings to me, that's going to stay in the final build, is that the Boneyard has eggs, which is really strange to me.

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Warcraft III Reforged Models - Orcs - Playable and Special Units

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Now is it just it just me or does the Night Elf Archer standing animation

look an aweful lot like these three:

Thoughts anyone?

---

One more thing. Here is the Resurrection "Angel"

It looks good, yes. But there are some strange things about it. It's obviousely a Valarjar Val'kyr from WoW Legion. It would have made perfect sense, when they were going to WoWify the story, campaigns etc.... But now, I don't know. Val'kyr didn't exist in the lore before WotLK, and I don't think it really fits without any retcons (that were cut). Funny thing is it's not even WoW cannon anymore, shouldn't she look like a Kyrian from the Shadowlands

 

[deepstrasz]

The biggest problem with the Undead buildings to me, that's going to stay in the final build, is that the Boneyard has eggs, which is really strange to me.

Those are supposed to be dragon hearts, I think.
But then, I don't see any dragon hearts here:

Spoiler

So, if they're thinking that they have dragon slaves to mate give offspring and then reanimate, it's stupid and against the story.
Sapphiron has a sort of heart in the chest, more like a frozen diamond or ice crystal:

Spoiler

So, those eggs should be looking more like this and be team coloured.

Thoughts anyone?

It's just similar to the first one because the troops are bending the knees but it's not the same.

It looks good, yes. But there are some strange things about it. It's obviousely a Valarjar Val'kyr from WoW Legion. It would have made perfect sense, when they were going to WoWify the story, campaigns etc.... But now, I don't know. Val'kyr didn't exist in the lore before WotLK, and I don't think it really fits without any retcons (that were cut). Funny thing is it's not even WoW cannon anymore, shouldn't she look like a Kyrian from the Shadowlands

Well, since Orcs & Humans manual mentions God and archangels, it's not far fetched. They should however have made it look more like the one in WcIII I guess. It's OK but should look more like a being of light.

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Warcraft III Reforged Models - Orcs - Playable and Special Units

There you have it. Drek'Thar straight out of Pokemon

Spoiler

Warcraft III Reforged Models - Polar Bear and Polar Furbolgs
Warcraft III Reforged Models - Special Heroes - Medivh, Misha, Marin Noggenfogger, Volcanus, Gazlowe, Lord Garithos

 

[Venombite]

Those are supposed to be dragon hearts, I think.
But then, I don't see any dragon hearts here:

Spoiler

So, if they're thinking that they have dragon slaves to mate give offspring and then reanimate, it's stupid and against the story.
Sapphiron has a sort of heart in the chest, more like a frozen diamond or ice crystal:

Spoiler

So, those eggs should be looking more like this and be team coloured.

No, those are eggs, here's a larger picture:

 

[deepstrasz]

No, those are eggs, here's a larger picture:

Crazy. What's their story? Undead eggs?

---

EDIT:

About Thrall:
video 1 & video 2.

The image on the loading screen got it wrong. It's consistent in the game. Thrall's eyes are dark gray.

Actually, Chris Metzen mentions the eyes being blue in Of Blood and Honor.

 

[Venombite]

Things I find weird iis that Hide uses an icon with a High/Blood Elf, when almost all units in melee and Campaigns using hide are Night Elves. Also why is Nightmare Cenarius summoning normal treants, he should summon the corrupted ones with same stats but different skin/model.
I like how Frost Wyrm animations have been improved, a lot better now.

 

[Nan0]

Can anyone tell do Reforged WE able to make http request? Via LuaSocker or any other ways?
For custom mm, hero save/load etc?

 

[Deolrin]

Things I find weird iis that Hide uses an icon with a High/Blood Elf, when almost all units in melee and Campaigns using hide are Night Elves. Also why is Nightmare Cenarius summoning normal treants, he should summon the corrupted ones with same stats but different skin/model.
I like how Frost Wyrm animations have been improved, a lot better now.

Only the Cloak of Shadows uses a Blood Elf icon. Shadowmeld has a Night Elf icon.

 

[AlwaysAndForever]

- Add a section in collection for background of heroes, so we can have some background of our heroes, and we can set it to main page.
- Add a section in collection for emotes of heroes, and let us use them in the game.
- Add an ability for range (for example we can use it for towers and when we click on it, it show us the range)

Spoiler

- Add peasant female (because the female should work too)
- Add villager kid(girl) we have 2 kids that they are boys, but we don't have a girl! or change one of the boy to girl!

Spoiler

- Change jaina or edit her cape, It's like the back of crypt lord

Spoiler

- Edit these galaxy warden to something like the color of dark illidan, and that circle moon thing is weird

Spoiler

- Edit death knight's hair, it looks like the roots of the trees

Spoiler

- Edit necromancer's skirt, It's like the back of that unit

Spoiler

- Edit main page background, make the clouds moves and add some meteor.

Spoiler

- When the units speaks, their heads just move and their mouths won't open!

Spoiler

How can we know the difference between a normal and a passive icon?

Spoiler

- Change the color of the owl to green, because the color of night elf is green

Spoiler

And the spirits must be like this, not white

Spoiler

Spoiler

I couldn't find Locust ability in the world editor! where is it? Is it hidden?

 

[deepstrasz]

- Change the color of the owl to green, because the color of night elf is green

You mean some have green hair but all have purple-blue skin.

 

[deepstrasz]

I mean if the human race is blue, orc is red, undead is icy blue, so the night elf must be green, because they are nature!

Are you referring to the player colours?
No, in the campaigns night elves were blue, the Sentinels you played with. Other factions or subgroups were other colours. But generally, blue, red and purple are the main colours used for some reason for playable factions.

 

[Deolrin]

I want to share some thoughts regarding the current state of structure build animations for Human, Orc and Undead. In my opinion, all three need work - Night Elves seem to be in a much better spot comparatively.

Humans - rather than having the structures “phase in” and “phase out” of existence, have parts of them appear, or rise through the ground, similar to the classic animations. This is particularly bothersome because humans can pause construction on their buildings by moving a peasant away - therefore, the animation can be paused at an awkward spot, such as when a part of the building is half-transparent. This really breaks the immersion of constructing a building and just looks awkward in-game.

Orcs - same comment regarding the fading-in animation as the humans, and additionally I would say that the crane just looks unfitting. For most of Warcraft 3, Orcs are far more primitive than humans - this makes the use of relatively advanced tools feel unfitting and lore-breaking. Particularly during the campaign in the Barrens I feel like the cranes would stick out like a sore thumb. Plus, the peon is scaled ridiculously small when building. What was wrong with the leather tent work camp style of construction? It looked a lot more primitive, chaotic and basic. Right now it feels like the crane used in construction is more advanced than most of the structures built with it!

Undead - this one, I feel, only needs some minor improvements. The overall scale feels off, it should have a smaller circumference across the board - in particular the spikes should be angled more vertically rather than spread out like a spider. The spike animation should be slowed down so as to not be as distracting and, again, spider-like. The base of the summoning circle should look more magical and less corporeal - where does this sophisticiated metal structure come from? I always felt that the Acolyte’s style of construction is purely magical in nature. They chant some arcane runes and a summoning process begins.
Finally, and I think most importantly for Undead - the same fade-in issue from the Humans and Orcs, PLUS the buildings “growing” in size as they phase in. This just looks amateurish and bad! The Necropolis upgrade stages are perfectly fine and look very good. The original Classic Undead build animation has the buildings appear in a half-phased-in stage, in light blue colour, without an organic “growing” animation. If that effect can be replicated in Reforged, I believe the Undead build animation will benefit greatly by looking more professional and less amateurishly animated.

 

[Elektrohund]

Night elves "default" color is teal.
Also, human is blue, orc is red and undead is purple.

Warcraft III - Night Elves
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/881834.jpg
Reforged evasion icon

 

[Marshmalo]

- Add a section in collection for background of heroes, so we can have some background of our heroes, and we can set it to main page.
- Add a section in collection for emotes of heroes, and let us use them in the game.
- Add an ability for range (for example we can use it for towers and when we click on it, it show us the range)

Spoiler

- Add peasant female (because the female should work too)
- Add villager kid(girl) we have 2 kids that they are boys, but we don't have a girl! or change one of the boy to girl!

Spoiler

- Change jaina or edit her cape, It's like the back of crypt lord

Spoiler

- Edit these galaxy warden to something like the color of dark illidan, and that circle moon thing is weird

Spoiler

- Edit death knight's hair, it looks like the roots of the trees

Spoiler

- Edit necromancer's skirt, It's like the back of that unit

Spoiler

- Edit main page background, make the clouds moves and add some meteor.

Spoiler

- When the units speaks, their heads just move and their mouths won't open!

Spoiler

How can we know the difference between a normal and a passive icon?

Spoiler

- Change the color of the owl to green, because the color of night elf is green

Spoiler

And the spirits must be like this, not white

Spoiler

Spoiler

I couldn't find Locust ability in the world editor! where is it? Is it hidden?

While this is a feedback thread and you're entitled to your objective opinion, most of these "issues" are not things I would want dev time wasted on and others are just bizarre observations. You want the Necromancers cloak changed because you've noticed a passing resemblance to another unit at a certain angle? These are very odd criticisms and not things that will concern most players, neither do they require "fixing".

In my opinion the owl looks better as blue, and Maive's moon circle does not look weird. I agree the re needs to be more clarification between passive and active icons but other than that, sorry but I don't think this is the kind of feedback Blizzard will find useful.

 

[deepstrasz]

Night elves "default" color is teal.

Aha...

Spoiler

 

[AlwaysAndForever]

and Maive's moon circle does not look weird.

Go in world editor and check yourself!

sorry but I don't think this is the kind of feedback Blizzard will find useful.

And I suggest every little thing that I see, now they may find it as useful or useless!

 

[deepstrasz]

As Maiev, Chen also has green, fel eyes as in the original of course but since you went so far as to change Thrall's wolf fur colour...

 

[Razorclaw_X]

I couldn't find Locust ability in the world editor! where is it? Is it hidden?

Locust was always hidden by default.

 

[Spacebuns]

Pls fix the scaling of default models.
By default, many models of the same unit types that are reskins of each other (e.g. Furbolgs, Eredar) have the same model scale. Their scale are different in the game thanks to World Editor "Scaling Value" setting.
But in RF, many models of the same unit types have different sizes, hence, after applying WE "Scaling Value" some units look disproportionately large, such as an Eredar Warlock boi that's bigger than even Archimonde himself. Or the Black Arrow Dark Minions, you can see level 1 - level 4 have scaling disproportionate to their power growth, while in classic, the Dark Minion's size change is a lot more subtle.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

Pls fix the scaling of default models.
By default, many models of the same unit types that are reskins of each other (e.g. Furbolgs, Eredar) have the same model scale. Their scale are different in the game thanks to World Editor "Scaling Value" setting.
But in RF, many models of the same unit types have different sizes, hence, after applying WE "Scaling Value" some units look disproportionately large, such as an Eredar Warlock boi that's bigger than even Archimonde himself. Or the Black Arrow Dark Minions, you can see level 1 - level 4 have scaling disproportionate to their power growth, while in classic, the Dark Minion's size change is a lot more subtle.

If Classic and Reforged models are different, there should be different "adjustment values" for Reforged and Classic models as well. Probably the Scaling Value is right for Classic, but for Reforged it should be 1.00.

 

[Kimbo]

I assume this has been said before, but I personally would like to be able to select more than 12 units (default original wc3 selection amount iirc?) and manually zoom out more in the gameplay/battlefield context of the game.

I find the units pathing still buggy and clunky, in the sense the units keep blocking pathways to other units, mainly hero units, I'v been killed afew times by being blocked by my own units set to follow the hero (due to limited selection amount) and it gets messy having to de-select and move units out of the way in the heat of a battle.

From what I recall, Starcraft 2 had much better walking/pathing and selection system. I hope they take from that.

The UI on the World Editor could have more polish and adjustment, as to how I am not clear but when I opened it and was abit absent minded, I thought I opened up the original wc3 WE until I selected some units and placed them. Whoops! XP

It just looks very windows XP-like, I hope they polish it more but I understand it's the least of their concerns atm.

I need more time to explore the game and it's new Wc3:WE still, but I hope they improve the games previous "limited" mechanics than it just be updated visuals.

 

[deepstrasz]

From what I recall, Starcraft 2 had much better walking/pathing and selection system. I hope they take from that.

They're not changing the gameplay as with StarCraft: Remastered. It's just a graphics enhancement.

 

[Razorclaw_X]

If Classic and Reforged models are different, there should be different "adjustment values" for Reforged and Classic models as well. Probably the Scaling Value is right for Classic, but for Reforged it should be 1.00.

They are different, but that leads into other issues when you don't change the Scaling Size, but the editor does it for you.

In other words for a given unit you're not guaranteed that it's going to be the same between Classic and Reforged, and in the case of your own model you need to explicitly define your own Scaling Value if you don't want to leave it up to fate which one you're using.

EX: Classic Arthas is 1.10. Reforged Arthas is 1.30. If you never changed it on a custom unit based on Arthas the unit will change to that size in that version.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

I wonder how they are going to handle for example Gnoll Assassin. In Classic, it had the same model as Gnoll Poacher but with tinting color. Now, Gnoll Assassin has its own model and its tinting color set to 255, 255, 255 (that is, no tinting color). Does Gnoll Assassin now look like Gnoll Poacher in Classic, because it has no tinting color? Or, have they stored the old tinting color values somewhere?

 

[deepstrasz]

Does Gnoll Assassin now look like Gnoll Poacher in Classic, because it has no tinting color? Or, have they stored the old tinting color values somewhere?

I don't think the Object Data is shared between the versions. It wouldn't make sense for it to be that way.

 

[Razorclaw_X]

I wonder how they are going to handle for example Gnoll Assassin. In Classic, it had the same model as Gnoll Poacher but with tinting color. Now, Gnoll Assassin has its own model and its tinting color set to 255, 255, 255 (that is, no tinting color). Does Gnoll Assassin now look like Gnoll Poacher in Classic, because it has no tinting color? Or, have they stored the old tinting color values somewhere?

The tinting on the Classic Gnoll Assassin stays with the Classic Gnoll Assassin (same as the Scaling Values).

 

[deepstrasz]

Moar Reforked moddin
Brother, may I have some oats?

 

[Saken]

If Classic and Reforged models are different, there should be different "adjustment values" for Reforged and Classic models as well. Probably the Scaling Value is right for Classic, but for Reforged it should be 1.00.

There in lies the very issue though. A custom map where a map dev needs to make a model stand out as a bit larger in their map looks fine in classic, but in Reforged the scaling becomes so off that you can't possibly have a map that looks identical to your original design choices (including doodads and destructibles). If the scaling for Reforged isn't fixed, they are forcing map makers to do one of four things:

1.) Make separate versions for Reforged & Classic for their map to look good in both versions of the game.
2.) Make a disclaimer in their map stating the map is best played in Classic to keep it as true to how the game was designed to look.
3.) Completely re-do their map for Reforged, meaning it will then no longer look the same in Classic so then they may make a disclaimer that the map is best played in Reforged.
4.) Entirely stop updating their maps, because what's the point of spending weeks, months, if not years creating a map and just to have a graphics update ruin everything.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

I think one needs to make a separate HD version of the map, where all things are tweaked for Reforged. But it seems not to be huge work. Only making new custom HD models can be time consuming, and we need to wait that modelers get their hands on doing HD models and find appropriate tools for the thing.

 

[Saken]

I think one needs to make a separate HD version of the map, where all things are tweaked for Reforged. But it seems not to be huge work. Only making new custom HD models can be time consuming, and we need to wait that modelers get their hands on doing HD models and find appropriate tools for the thing.

But that approach would disregard everything stated by Blizzard about cross-compatibility for custom games between classic and Reforged. As well, some folks like myself can spend hours with doodad placement for small areas in a map to make it look perfect; such a suggestion for a terrainer to re-do everything for a Reforged version is just down right evil in my opinion. Just look back at previous pages in this where @YourArthas used some of my terrain screenshots as an example.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

Well, I think it is the same thing that old custom maps may not perfectly work in newer patches. Of course, it would be great that all things would look great in Reforged without any work, but I do not think that's going to happen. In any case, one needs to upgrade the old custom models unless one thinks that it is fine to use old and new models side-by-side. Also, the backwards compatibility is not perfect in Warcraft 3 Classic. Maps made with 1.29+ do not work in previous patches. Movies made for 1.30.1+ do not work in previous patches. Some sound files are missing in 1.31 that existed in previous patches and so on. That is, you need to target your map to specific patch and ensure that it works in it.

 

[Saken]

Also, the backwards compatibility is not perfect in Warcraft 3 Classic. Maps made with 1.29+ do not work in previous patches. Movies made for 1.30.1+ do not work in previous patches. Some sound files are missing in 1.31 that existed in previous patches and so on. That is, you need to target your map to specific patch and ensure that it works in it.

That's not what I mean at all and I understand why maps using work-arounds won't translate well to later versions especially in 1.32+; but maps in classic that have a default doodad or unit with it's scale changed to have smaller scaling, in Reforged the scaling is not the same ratio; nor are other things. Simply put, the scaling, rotation, and original placement & height of units & doodads are not the same. Which those don't involve using hacky work-arounds, or out dated systems. This is just simple object editor stuff that shouldn't be changing.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

That's not what I mean at all and I understand why maps using work-arounds won't translate well to later versions especially in 1.32+; but maps in classic that have a default doodad or unit with it's scale changed to have smaller scaling, in Reforged the scaling is not the same ratio; nor are other things. Simply put, the scaling, rotation, and original placement & height of units & doodads are not the same. Which those don't involve using hacky work-arounds, or out dated systems. This is just simple object editor stuff that shouldn't be changing.

I agree with this. If possible, Blizzard should check all doodads and units that they are about the same size and facing to minimize the work of mappers. Now, many doodads are too big or too small, or face a wrong direction. It should be pretty easy to do but a bit tedious I think.

 

[Saken]

Yeah, tedious indeed; yet this is something that should've been their goal from the beginning and not something we have to discover in beta testing. After all, this was supposed to be a graphical update mainly, so model scaling and default rotation should've never been changed in my opinion. Just over two weeks away though from seeing how they address these issues.

 

[deepstrasz]

That is, you need to target your map to specific patch and ensure that it works in it.

That's not smart. It creates community divergences.
One thing is to fix something minor and another is to rehash everything including models and stuff.

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

The tinting on the Classic Gnoll Assassin stays with the Classic Gnoll Assassin (same as the Scaling Values).

I can confirm that it really works like this in Reforged with SD graphics turned on.

But I couldn't find any way to access SD graphics settings. That is, if I wanted to modify SD tinting color values, I found no way to do it. Am I missing something here?

 

[Tommi Gustafsson]

There in lies the very issue though. A custom map where a map dev needs to make a model stand out as a bit larger in their map looks fine in classic, but in Reforged the scaling becomes so off that you can't possibly have a map that looks identical to your original design choices (including doodads and destructibles). If the scaling for Reforged isn't fixed, they are forcing map makers to do one of four things:

1.) Make separate versions for Reforged & Classic for their map to look good in both versions of the game.
2.) Make a disclaimer in their map stating the map is best played in Classic to keep it as true to how the game was designed to look.
3.) Completely re-do their map for Reforged, meaning it will then no longer look the same in Classic so then they may make a disclaimer that the map is best played in Reforged.
4.) Entirely stop updating their maps, because what's the point of spending weeks, months, if not years creating a map and just to have a graphics update ruin everything.

If there is no possibility to have two sets of object data, one for SD and one for HD, then it seems that one needs to do 1), i.e. two different versions of the map. However, in reality, I believe that one ends up in just doing a HD version of the map and not SD version at all. This can be even clearer when custom HD models without an SD counterpart start to pop up. It will be too much of a pain to have two custom models and two custom icons just to support classic Warcraft 3, especially also if you need to make trigger changes two times, once for SD and once for HD.

 

[Razorclaw_X]

But I couldn't find any way to access SD graphics settings. That is, if I wanted to modify SD tinting color values, I found no way to do it. Am I missing something here?

Currently there is a toggle in WorldEdit that sets between SD models and HD models, but it doesn't actually work (probably because it's actually missing a lot of SD assets right now). The way I've been messing with it is making comparisons on the same map between the Live editor and the Beta editor; that's pretty much the only way I can figure out what stuff needs to be fixed to be consistent between the two versions.

If there is no possibility to have two sets of object data, one for SD and one for HD, then it seems that one needs to do 1), i.e. two different versions of the map. However, in reality, I believe that one ends up in just doing a HD version of the map and not SD version at all. This can be even clearer when custom HD models without an SD counterpart start to pop up. It will be too much of a pain to have two custom models and two custom icons just to support classic Warcraft 3, especially also if you need to make trigger changes two times, once for SD and once for HD.

Ultimately I think in the end everything is going to be siding with the HD version anyway as useage of older patches declines over time (and hopefully the reasons to stay on said old patches will become irrelevant over time as well-- the main attraction is stuff just isn't as broken on 1.26). I am having a little fun figuring out what causes a change and what doesn't even though it's all purely a matter of trial and error at this point.

The fun thing is right now you can define HD-only assets on the Live world editor by heading each file path with "
_HD.w3mod\" which is identical to flagging an item as HD on the beta editor. I've been using this method to pre-determine the terrain art so it can match with my Live version and the game will take it/understand what I did (there are issues with that as well, but what doesn't? Terrain cliffs aren't exactly the same between SD and HD).

Right now I think the idea of having something simply work on both versions just as well is an interesting challenge.

 

[AlwaysAndForever]

In the world editor below the minimap, all units are shown black!

Spoiler

The shadow on the map is missing!

Spoiler

The Guard and Arcane tower not shown in WE, and other towers in Campaign have the same model and size!?

Spoiler

The Demolisher should have little fire animation, and we cannot see lich king's armor inside the ice crown!, and the pig looks like piggy bank!

Spoiler

The Footman must have Militia's sword, and the Militia should have axe like wc3!

Spoiler

And the shield should change like trailer, or just add human logo on shield

Spoiler

Decrease the size animation on water elemental and add some wave designs because it still looks like plastic, and make water move inside the elemental

Spoiler

Change the infernal to this, it's better and more scarier, just design it with lava and fire animation, so it'll be awesome.

Spoiler

And the golems look more like crystal golems!

Spoiler

And what I mentioned before was to create a folder for variables, but you realized it wrong!
Here you can see what I was tried to say.

Spoiler

And please keep the first icons of the races, and move the queue times!

Spoiler

[/QUOTE]

Edit...

Look familiar?

I agree though. The original is nicer due to the armour being seen.

Oh I forgot everything about the campaign, but yeah maybe we should have 2 version!

Maybe they wanted it to be nation neutral?

Maybe, but the shield from trailer is much better than the nation neutral!

That does not look like an infernal but a clay golem.

I mean they can design it with lava and fire animation on that model, so it'll be awesome.

More like StarCraft mineral golems.

Exactly.

 

[deepstrasz]

we cannot see lich king's armor inside the ice crown!,

Look familiar?

Spoiler

I agree though. The original is nicer due to the armour being seen.

And the shield should change like trailer, or just add human logo on shield

Maybe they wanted it to be nation neutral?

Change the infernal to this, it's better and more scarier

That does not look like an infernal but a clay golem.

And the golems look more like crystal golems!

More like StarCraft mineral golems.