Version 2.0.2 Build 22726 PTR Patch Notes

Archian

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Version 2.0.2 Build 22726 PTR Patch Notes

Mapmakers in the Warcraft III: Reforged community are speaking out after a recent update made changes to a core item in the game, which they say could cause many custom maps to stop working properly.

According to a post that’s being shared around forums and social media, Blizzard edited the original Orb of Slow ability instead of making a new one for a new Human orb item. While the change might seem small, it could have a big impact on how custom maps run.


“This can result in custom maps breaking,” the post warns. Many maps depend on the way the original Orb of Slow worked. The older Blizzard Classic team used to avoid this issue by copying and editing abilities instead of changing the originals — keeping custom content safe.

In the latest patch, Blizzard seems to have added the Shadow Strike ability to the Orb of Slow so it can work together with the Sorceress’s Slow ability. But some players say this causes problems with the Warden’s own Shadow Strike, which might no longer stack or behave as expected.

Even worse, changing Shadow Strike and Soulburn to a value of 0 has, in the past, caused crashes — a worrying sign for mapmakers who use detailed scripting.

Blizzard hasn’t said anything official yet, but this is another example of how updates to older games can create problems for the people keeping them alive with custom content.

For now, many mapmakers are stuck waiting — either hoping Blizzard fixes the issue, or preparing to redo parts of their maps to avoid bugs and crashes. With Warcraft III’s strong custom map community, players are hoping Blizzard listens and acts fast.

Blizzard said:
While this is a work in progress and subject to change, we now plan to go live with with 2.0.2 on April 15.

Our biggest thanks to everyone who participated in the PTR and provided feedback. For any tournaments currently underway, it will be up to you to decide which version you will continue your tournament on.

New Changes in this Build

World Editor

  • Item Slow(Orb Version) (AIos) changed to be based off of Shadowstrike (AEsh) instead of Slow (Aslo)
    • This may change how custom abilities previously copied from Item Slow(Orb Version) function
Items

  • Vampiric Potion removed from drop pool
  • Rune of Lesser Healing removed from drop pool
  • Sentry Ward vision reduced from 1600 to 1200
Human

  • Reverted Siphon Mana range
  • Orb of Slow proc chance reduced from 30%/15% to 25%/10%
  • Orb of Slow debuff is no longer dispellable or stealable
  • Orb of Slow debuff now stacks with Sorceress Slow
  • Holy Light cooldown increased from 5/5/5 to 5.5/5.5/5.5 seconds
    • Note that the HUD does not support decimal cooldowns and will display the cooldown as 6.
  • Flame Strike mana cost reduced from 135/135/135 to 125/125/125
  • Defend deflection chance reduced from 30% to 25%
Orc

  • Orb of Lightning damage against summoned units increased from 150 to 200
  • Wind Rider movement speed reduced from 320 to 310
  • Sentry Ward vision reduced from 1600 to 1200
Night Elf

  • Reverted Hunters Hall lumber cost
  • Reverted Natures Blessing cost
  • Reverted Moonstone duration
  • Reverted Mountain Giant food cost
  • Upgrade Moon Glaives cost increased from 100/150 to 125/175
  • Upgrade Moon Glaives research time increased from 35 to 60 seconds
  • Huntress movement speed reduced from 350 to 340
  • Chimaera movement speed increased from 250 to 270
Undead

  • Reverted Ritual Dagger charges and cost
  • Cripple mana cost reduced from 100 to 90
  • Frost Wyrm air attack now has an area of effect (same as ground attack). This splash damage will only affect enemy air units
  • Frost Wyrm ground attack splash damage will no longer affect air units
  • Frost Wyrm ground and air attack range increased from 300 to 375
  • Disease Clouds spawned on Abomination death no longer have collision

All Changes in Version 2.0.2

Performance

  • Fixed an issue on production servers that caused the game to hitch every few seconds for some players
Bugfixes

  • Fixed an issue where players could not join a private custom game by name if they did not have the map downloaded
General

  • Updated various campaign background screens
Lighting

  • Reforged environment lighting direction adjusted to match Classic/Classic HD
  • Dungeon biome lighting overhauled to better fit Classic lighting
  • Minor brightness adjustments
Map Pool

  • 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 map pools have been updated
World Editor

  • Item Slow(Orb Version) (AIos) changed to be based off of Shadowstrike (AEsh) instead of Slow (Aslo)
    • This may change how custom abilities previously copied from Item Slow(Orb Version) function

Balance​

Items

  • Sentry Ward Vision reduced from 1600 to 1000
  • Sentry Ward vision reduced from 1600 to 1200
  • Sentry Ward health reduced from 200 to 50
  • Sentry Wards are now magic immune
  • Healing Ward charges reduced from 3 to 2
  • Healing Ward area of effect reduced from 500 to 450
  • Healing Wards are now magic immune
  • Vampiric Potion added as a level 2 charged drop
    • Vampiric Potion grants +6 damage and 50% life steal for 20
  • Added Rune of Lesser Healing as a level 2 powerup drop
    • Rune of Lesser Healing heals 75 health in an area around it.
  • Ring of Protection +4 removed from drop pool
  • Ring of Protection +3 added to drop pool
  • Ring of Protection +3 gold cost reduced from 150 to 125 (matches Ring of Protection +4)
  • Backpack shop requirement removed for all races
  • Orb of Darkness will now spawn level 2 Dark Minions
  • Ancient Jango of Endurance movement speed increased from 5 to 7.5 and attack rate from 3 to 3.5%
  • Legion of Doom-Horn movement speed increased from 5% to 7.5%, health regen per second increased from 0.3 to 0.35.
Human

  • Orb of Fire replaced with Orb of Slow
    • Costs 325 gold
    • Provides +5 damage
    • Orb of Slow has a 30% chance to proc on units, and 15% chance to proc on heroes. Applies a 25% attack speed and 55% movement speed slow to the target for 10(5) seconds
    • Orb of Slow has a 25% chance to proc on units, and 10% chance to proc on heroes. Applies a 25% attack speed and 55% movement speed slow to the target for 10(5) seconds
    • Orb of Slow debuff is undispellable and affects magic immune units.
  • Flame Strike mana cost reduced from 135/135/135 to 125/125/125
  • Siphon Mana Range reduced from 600 to 500
  • Siphon Mana area of effect reduced from 800 to 700
  • Banish cooldown increased from 0/0/0 to 4/2/0 seconds
  • Holy Light cooldown increased from 5/5/5 to 6/6/6
  • Holy Light cooldown increased from 5/5/5 to 5.5/5.5/5.5 seconds
  • Militia Armor reduced from 4 to 3
  • Defend piercing damage reduction reduced from 65% to 50%
  • Defend deflection chance reduced from 30% to 25%
  • Defend cost reduced from 150/100 to 125/75
  • Defend research time reduced from 45 to 40 seconds
  • Slow duration reduced from 60 to 45 seconds
  • Invisibility Range increase from 300 to 400
  • Heal range increased from 250 to 350
  • Flying Machine movement speed reduced from 400 to 375
  • Arcane Vault requirement removed from Dragon Hawks and Cloud upgrade
Orc

  • Orb of Lightning cost reduced from 375 to 325
  • Orb of Lightning damage against summoned units increased from 150 to 300
  • Orb of Lightning damage against summoned units increased from 150 to 200
  • Mirror Image cooldown increased from 3 to 5 seconds
  • Great Hall build time reduced from 140 to 125 seconds
  • Great Hall build time reduced from 140 to 135 seconds
  • Wind Rider level reduced from 4 to 3
  • Envenomed Spears damage per tick reduced from 4 to 3
  • Wind Rider movement speed reduced from 320 to 310
  • Sentry Wards, Stasis Traps, and Healing Wards are now magic immune
  • Sentry Ward health reduced from 200 to 50
  • Stasis Trap health reduced from 100 to 25
  • Stasis Trap detonation radius reduced 400 to 350
  • Stasis Trap stun duration reduced from 6(2.5) to 4(2) seconds
  • Healing Wards duration reduced from 30 to 25 seconds
  • Healing Ward area of effect reduced from 500 to 450
  • Tauren now have Resistant Skin
  • Tauren cost increased from 280/80 to 300/100
Night Elf

  • Orb of Venom damage per tick reduced from 9 to 8
  • Moonstone duration increased from 30 to 45 seconds
  • Moonstone duration increased from 30 to 35 seconds
  • Mana Burn range reduced from 300 to 250
  • Keeper of the Grove strength gain increased from 1.8 to 2
  • Treant attack cooldown reduced from 1.75 to 1.65 seconds
  • Wisp lumber gather rate reduced from 8 to 7 seconds
  • Nature’s Blessing lumber cost reduced from 200 to 175
  • Hunter’s Hall lumber cost reduced from 100 to 80
  • Upgrade Moon Glaives now changes Huntress armor type to Heavy
  • Upgrade Moon Glaives cost increased from 100/150 to 125/175
  • Upgrade Moon Glaives research time increased from 35 to 60 seconds
  • Huntress movement speed reduced from 350 to 340
  • Ultra Vision research time reduced from 45 to 30 seconds
  • Mountain Giant food cost reduced from 7 to 6
  • Chimaera movement speed increased from 250 to 290
  • Chimaera movement speed increased from 250 to 270
  • Vorpal Blades upgrade now grants an additional 10 damage
Undead

  • Wand of Negation charges increased from 2 to 4
    • Wand of Negation is now a single target dispel that deals 200 damage to summoned units
  • Ritual Dagger cost reduced from 100 to 75, charges reduced from 2 to 1
  • Ritual Dagger healing increased from 175 to 200
  • Frost Nova range reduced from 800 to 700
  • Spiked Carapace damage return from 15/30/45 to 25/50/75
  • Carrion Swarm damage increased from 75/125/200 to 75/135/200
  • Nerubian Tower attack cooldown reduced from 1.3 to 1 second
  • Nerubian Tower attack cooldown reduced from 1.3 to 1.15 seconds
  • Burrow research time reduced from 45 to 30 seconds
  • Web is now available on tier 1
  • Gargoyle movement speed reduced from 375 to 350
  • Gargoyle ground base damage reduced by 1
  • Cripple mana cost decreased from 100 to 90
  • Anti Magic Shield blocked damage reduced from 420 to 300
  • Disease Clouds spawned on Abomination death no longer have collision
  • Frost Wyrm air attack now has an area of effect (same as ground attack)
  • Frost Wyrm ground and air attack range increased from 300 to 375
Neutral

  • Level 1 Rain of Fire range increased from 700 to 800
  • Dark Ranger Drain Life can now transfer life to a friendly unit.
Creeps

  • Poison Treants no longer have entangled roots. Health increased from 290 to 350
  • Spitting Spider armor type changed from Heavy to Medium - Health reduced from 400 to 350
  • Giant Spider Health reduced from 550 to 500
  • Satyr Hellcaller level reduced from 9 to 8
  • Giant Wolf stock delay increased from 220 to 440
  • Satyr Shadow Dancer cost decreased from 200 to 190 gold
  • Immolation damage reduced from 10 to 5
  • Entangle root duration from 10(3) to 6(3) seconds. Range reduced from 800 to 600
  • Frost Nova slow decreased from 4 to 2 seconds
  • Unholy Frenzy HP drain reduced from 4 to 2
  • Brilliance Aura reduce mana regeneration from 1 to 0.5
  • Polymorph mana cost reduced from 225 to 200. Duration reduced from 25 to 20 seconds
  • Healing Wave heal amount reduced from 215 to 130. Jumps reduced from 4 to 3
  • Cold Arrows duration increased from 3(0.75) to 3(1) seconds and damage from 0.25 to 1
  • Diseased Cloud duration reduced from 120 to 75 seconds
  • Animate Dead reduced duration from 120 to 40 seconds and mana cost reduced from 250 to 150. Cooldown reduced from 240 to 180 seconds
  • Parasite duration reduced from 30 to 15 seconds
  • Blizzard casting time reduced from 1 to 0.599 seconds
  • Rain of Fire casting time reduced from 1 to 0.599 seconds
  • Skink movement speed reduced from 200 to 100
  • Apprentice Wizard health increased from 180 to 200 and damage by 2
  • Fallen Priest damage increased by 2
  • Lightning Lizard armor type changed from Heavy to Medium. Health increased from 280 to 300. Dice damage reduced by 2
  • Salamander Hatchling armor type changed from Heavy to Medium. Damage reduced by 1
  • Arachnathid Earth-borer Shadow Strike and mana removed. Health increased from 400 to 450
  • Murgul Snarecaster Health increased from 375 to 400. Damage reduced by 1
  • Skeletal Orc Champion - Death Coil removed. Now has Cripple and Vampiric Aura
  • Infernal Machine now has Unholy Aura
 
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Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 41
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Messages
13,239
I'll be the bad guy.
No doubt the people who still hasn't moved on from reforged's initial fuckups will come in and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

This happens all the time in tech, a game you bought in 2001 might not run on a modern OS and a community patch is required to play it.
I don't think a developer need to have 100% backwards compatibility with maps from 2004.. wasn't there a preload bug that was widely used by modding at some point and so when they fixed it it broke maps? I am fuzzy on the details but I think that's the gist of it.


For those active they can fix this relatively easily no doubt, so the only problem is those who are no longer active.
It seems to me that a system needs to be put in place to allow editing of old maps where the creator cannot be reached or is not interested. If this already exists and I am not aware of it I don't see the problem.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,284
From Microsoft's perspective I am not even sure they care about custom content. After all, every time they remastered Age of Empires it was completely incompatible with content created for the previous release.

That said saying this will have a "big impact" on some custom maps seems a bit extreme. Cause bugs or balance issues, yes, but "big" impact? Small changes such as to lighting are more likely to heavily impact some maps, and often it is the undocumented changes that end up breaking something.
 
Level 48
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Messages
9,824
Good to get some visibility on this.

I actually don't disagree with you very strongly Chaosy, and I do think we need some more robust guidelines in regards to map-maker edit authorizations.

I think the real frustration is just how "unforced" the error is: for years they have done this sort of thing (adding abilities or functionalities to abilities), and they have always just added new ones in rather than rewrite the old. Call it cruft, but the OE is full of discarded, unused abilities which are actually quite useful. They did it back in RoC, TFT, the Tavern heroes, & even modern day (old & new Ritual Dagger).

Not doing it now is just sorta boggling.
 
Level 17
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Messages
792
I'll be the bad guy.
And i'll be the guy that tells you Blizzard setting precedent for editing existing abilities and potentially continuing on to do so for future updates puts all custom maps in danger. So this needs to be stopped dead in its track right now and Blizzard needs to remember to never do this again so that we dont have to report these issues again just to have people like you coming in to downplay them.

Next time bring a better argument to the table than "oh no i dont care about maps from 2004".
I care about maps from 2003 to 2060 how about that ? since we like exaggerating numbers for our own mundane takes.
 
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For those active they can fix this relatively easily no doubt, so the only problem is those who are no longer active.
I think a surprisingly few number of people know how to hack the game and change the default abilities, and among that group even fewer people know how to hack the game and change the default "custom map" abilities without causing themselves to desync whenever they forget and queue for versus mode with the hack still enabled.
wasn't there a preload bug that was widely used by modding at some point and so when they fixed it it broke maps? I am fuzzy on the details but I think that's the gist of it.
I believe it was the opposite of this.
  • 2019: Activision employees "fix" the preload exploit to have better computer security and be safe for use as a mapping feature
  • 2022: New Activision employees deploy untested code that caches every file in the game, leaking memory horribly and furthermore causing each repeat load of the same file path to see the same file. So if you open your map in WorldEdit, save, close, open it again, you would get the cached one and lose changes. Similarly in-game preload exploit breaks apart and loads same data over and over. If you play custom map A, then B, you will see data from custom map A inside of map B. This was just terrible programming and wasn't fixable by the user

This happens all the time in tech, a game you bought in 2001 might not run on a modern OS and a community patch is required to play it.
I don't think a developer need to have 100%
Even if this sweeping generalization is true in some situations for software today, Reforged is in a pickle because it combines lame, over-engineered software written to prevent client side mods on WoW with the old 2002 game and then tries to pretend to be the old 2002 game. As a result, the kind of "hacked by the user to fix it" concept you're describing is 10x harder to accomplish. To avoid that, Kam had one of his friends program a backdoor in the game intentionally to allow W3Champions to exist back when he worked at Activision. But if our modern day intern removes the back door "to resolve desyncs" we're gonna see what's left of this community schizm off of the official client like the hounds of hell are on their tail. And using the backdoor as an excuse to waive our hands and say, "Ahh, the community will fix it," is extremely non-technical and low effort thinking.

It really is that bad. Reforged pandered to everyone and tried to be the Warcraft III engine for all the use cases. If it is not, it should make that CLEAR to the people who WANT to use it, instead of slowly degenerating everything into badly managed chaos and teaching people that Warcraft III as a game concept doesn't work technologically (which we know is false).
 

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 41
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
13,239
@StormKnight
What standards are you holding them to? now I don't play every game in existence with mod support but the few I do know of do not offer infinite backwards compatibility. To name some examples:

OSRS plugins break all the time when new updates come in.
WoW addons break often on new patches and expansions
Crusader Kings 3 mods also break often and you even get warnings when trying to load mods that were made on a previous patch.

Also "just don't do it lol" and "I don't want it" are shallow dream land arguments, near nothing gets supported forever unless someone is willing to pay for someone's time to do it. Hooray for capitalism. I'd rather our one intern spend time on other things, which you can disagree with if you wish.
I think a surprisingly few number of people know how to hack the game and change the default abilities, and among that group even fewer people know how to hack the game and change the default "custom map" abilities without causing themselves to desync whenever they forget and queue for versus mode with the hack still enabled.
I didn't mean that the user playing the map should modify their client. I meant that each map maker who used this ability can just recode a couple of abilities or base it on another ability.. whatever works for it by a case by case basis. No doubt annoying but it's not exactly a herculean task.

Even if this sweeping generalization is true in some situations for software today, Reforged is in a pickle because it combines lame, over-engineered software written to prevent client side mods on WoW with the old 2002 game and then tries to pretend to be the old 2002 game. As a result, the kind of "hacked by the user to fix it" concept you're describing is 10x harder to accomplish. To avoid that, Kam had one of his friends program a backdoor in the game intentionally to allow W3Champions to exist back when he worked at Activision. But if our modern day intern removes the back door "to resolve desyncs" we're gonna see what's left of this community schizm off of the official client like the hounds of hell are on their tail. And using the backdoor as an excuse to waive our hands and say, "Ahh, the community will fix it," is extremely non-technical and low effort thinking.
Similarly, I don't suggest an actual community patch (though that would be kinda cool). I just don't see why this is outrageous and gave an example of things being dysfunctional and it being up to the community to fix it, in our case more likely by a map-to-map basis rather than a patch which seems infinitely more complicated.
 
in our case more likely by a map-to-map basis
I appreciate that you know what you're saying, but I don't want to hear it anymore so I will probably not further take part in this discussion. What you are saying might make sense under good technology leadership where all these map-to-map changes needed to happen to clean up the maps and make them fit with a more idealized client and better APIs (such as the WoW addon example you cited).

But the practical reality is that we're just gumming up maps with more and more stupid stuff until they will become ridiculous to maintain. I think the war3mapPreview problem and the Blz native workaround is an example of this type of bad direction. The new standard isn't better - in fact it's arguably pointlessly more complex - and now both kinds of maps exist in different places. That's technology garbage, in my opinion. I'd rather not turn the maps into garbage.

But I guess I'm just getting too old.
 
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792
What standards are you holding them to? now I don't play every game in existence with mod support but the few I do know of do not offer infinite backwards compatibility. To name some examples:

Imagine being so careless about Warcraft 3's integrity in relation to their mapmakers that you are open to any update mass overwriting and bugging out mapmakers work. i'm saying if the way in which they executed this ability was continued, so more melee changes resulting in them directly editing more existing abilities... All maps will be effected, ALL MAPS, modern or old, it doesn't matter, if you used the ability as a mapmaker, you're effected. Its as simple as that.

And no, "but other games do it haha" dont count for Jack !@#. Warcraft 3 is not other games, we have a different community with different standards and needs and Blizzard should confirm to those standards. The modders for other games can enjoy their lifes work being outdated and bugged out with an update, we dont tolerate such things. That's why the precedent was important.

The idea of touching a pre existing ability is something the classic team did not do and should never be allowed to even hatch a SINGLE egg from Blizzard.
Stopped dead in its tracks, never to be replicated.

The fact that you would allow yourself to go in such lengths to justify or somehow explain or talk around the problem making it about whether or not we should or shouldn't care about old content or new content or content that's not the most up to date down to the month...tells me you are not a serious person, or you just actively chose to engage in a conversation you had no real understanding about, and now you dug yourself in a hole.

The point is simple, Blizzard wants to update melee ? nice
They want to make new changes to abilities ? cool
They should create a new ability to apply their experiments on.
Its that simple.

The classic team did this with Sundering Blades, Ritual Dagger, The Orb of Fire with Anti healing factor and Incite Unholy Frenzy.
Sadly those people left so now we have the misfortune of explaining people like you why a practice that OFFICIAL BLIZZARD carried out needs to be CONTINUED instead of abandoned.

But go ahead, dig yourself deeper. The hole wont dig itself.
The games you pointed out are also not good examples, as far as i know addons for wow kind of took a portion of the game hostage, which is not what custom maps for war3 do, Crusader Kings is a somewhat more interesting example but you need to take something else into account, Warcraft 3 is a superior product to Crusader Kings because we the community dont let Blizzard run the risk of breaking maps with every other update and are serious about it. That's literally a selling point for the growth of our community, that we struggle to keep it stable, that mapmakers dont have to cross their fingers on whether or not they need to spend several hours updating their map for every update the retail game gets.

If you want to pick a fight with your own community members atleast pick a fight more worthy than the idea of allowing precedent for blizzard to start getting comfortable on editing existing abilities.
 
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Level 30
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Messages
419
I don't feel that strongly about the headline, Tho I'll say customisation should be prioritised because it's the main selling point of the game at this point.
Skyrim lives or dies on customisation and they break half or more of the mods every time they update so there's plenty of precedent for this mistake 😊

Neutral
  • Dark Ranger Drain Life can now transfer life to a friendly unit.
I was waiting for Hive to mention this patch so I could complain about this change.

THEY STOLE OUR IDEA, @Scias !

I can only assume this has made Happy even more unbeatable -_-
 

Chaosy

Tutorial Reviewer
Level 41
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
13,239
Blizzard should confirm to those standards
What standards? the ones you made up based on what you want?

they literally removed campaigns from the game, remember that?

Go back and read the amount of things they fucked up with the reforged release and the patches that followed and tell me about these standards that blizzard has supposedly upheld so far. This doesn't even get into the top 10 as far as making maps unplayable. That does not make what blizzard did okay but it shows that standards is not an argument that holds any weight, not anymore.

You're not wrong though, it would be nice if things did not break. I just don't like the 'argument' "but they should", it's hollow.

The games you pointed out are also not good examples, as far as i know addons for wow kind of took a portion of the game hostage, which is not what custom maps for war3 do, Crusader Kings is a somewhat more interesting example but you need to take something else into account, Warcraft 3 is a superior product to Crusader Kings because we the community dont let Blizzard run the risk of breaking maps with every other update and are serious about it. That's literally a selling point for the growth of our community, that we struggle to keep it stable, that mapmakers dont have to cross their fingers on whether or not they need to spend several hours updating their map for every update the retail game gets.
You're locking onto details that don't matter. Why should I need to update an addon that changes my UI? iT wOrKeD lAsT paTcH. Nor does quality of the product matter. The only thing that matter is that it's not the industry standard to support things forever and you've not shown anything to show otherwise. You can wish that Blizzard is better than the industry standard but in that case it does not seem 'reasonable' to me to expect it by definiton.
 
  • Spiked Carapace damage return from 15/30/45 to 25/50/75
Crypt Lord, a dead hero:
megamind-megamind-ok-meme.gif
  • Treant attack cooldown reduced from 1.75 to 1.65 seconds
the-world-jojos-bizarre-adventure.gif
  • Upgrade Moon Glaives now changes Huntress armor type to Heavy
Berserkers, riflemen's reaction:

sonfys-nervios.gif
  • Tauren now have Resistant Skin
gigachad-chad.gif
 
Level 39
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Messages
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So from what I see here, they just add stuff that nobody needs, out of reason they change stock abilities, breaking stuff and pretend like nothing happens. Then if you are against it, raise your voice on forums.
I do not see logic there. How about raising your voice BEFORE they do radical change or test somewhere else not in patch directly. Sometimes people just want to be left alone with crap and play game, and are tired of reporting stupid things like these. Then silly update happens, breaking their stuff and they need to explain to Blizzard and report some things for absolutely no reason as this did not need to happen to the first place. You want new ability? Then create new ability, do not break regular one so tons of people need to come to tell you that something is broken.
 

Shar Dundred

Hosted Project: LoA
Level 76
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Messages
6,080
Are people even using the Orb of Slow ability?

I do not care for the discussion about the whole principle, leave me out of that discussion and fight it out among yourselves
and oppose as much as you will, I am just curious if someone actually uses that thing.

Tauren now have Resistant Skin
Yiiiiiiikes.
 
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we dont tolerate such things
Although I mentioned that I should stay out of the discussion because I will not win because I simply disagree with anyone who disagrees with me, in hindsight, I feel it is worth noting:
  • If there actually is a community, and if we actually have any power to "not tolerate" anything -- although I'm a bit skeptical of those claims -- generally our power I assume would lie in the ability to play Frozen Throne.
  • If Reforged breaks our stuff, we can go play our stuff on Frozen Throne where it still works.
  • Drawing a parallel between Reforged and other modern games, as a result, has this fatal flaw.
  • For example, if you live in a society where everyone farts in your face when meeting you, and every 30 seconds during any conversation they fart in your face... I can laugh at you and go back to my society where humans do not fart in the face of the other humans. If you say, "but, everyone in fart society acts this way," you are not making a false statement. I cannot say you are wrong. But I can leave fart society and go back to normal society, where people do not fart in the faces of other people, because my concept of normal exists on Earth.
  • Other games might not have the same circumstance. If I play World of Warcraft: War Within and then realize that I hate it and wish that I was playing World of Warcraft: Legion, you can tell me to just shut up about it, since the Legion program on the computer does not run anymore. But, on Windows 11, Frozen Throne does run.
  • So, if someone says, "we" are not going to tolerate... you know, basically all this crap in the last five years... I could imagine maybe they're talking about the Frozen Throne playerbase and community. I know if you ask ABK/MS they will tell you that there is no Frozen Throne playerbase, since they are only allowed to exist as part of Reforged playerbase. But that is a marketing concept. As a technology concept, I can talk about Frozen Throne playerbase and you know what I'm talking about. I knew from the moment they broke this game, before i ever heard the word Reforged that the marketing people had diverged from the technology people. But that's just my opinion. I guess I'll go do something useful instead of posting here about this topic further, since it's already been 6 years
 
Level 9
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May 12, 2018
Messages
145
If we begin to allow editing existing natives and abilities data codes instead of simply offering new ones, it may soon become a wildfire that spirals out of control. The reason custom gamers don't complain about their-community patch team or outsourced team- considerable authority and influence over ladder patches is because there's a clearly drawn line—it's limited to that context. But if that influence starts affecting custom games, this already unstable brick wall will quickly collapse.
As you all know, the data codes used in Warcraft III's Object Editor are not dependency-based like in StarCraft II. The patch version set in the map options only changes the value fields, while the data codes affect all maps universally.
 
Level 4
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Apr 4, 2022
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21
So, I should not update the main client until it has some fixes onto some of these potential bugs.
 
Level 4
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Apr 4, 2022
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21
There's a bug that has been around since the original game release. Orb of slow and lightning don't trigger ability if player don't give hero attack order(let hero attack automatically)
Come to think of it from the last time I played Dota 1, the Maelstrom and Mjollnir items do behave like that. The chain lightning only procs when you order the hero to attack.
 
Level 9
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Aug 16, 2019
Messages
83
You're locking onto details that don't matter. Why should I need to update an addon that changes my UI? iT wOrKeD lAsT paTcH. Nor does quality of the product matter. The only thing that matter is that it's not the industry standard to support things forever and you've not shown anything to show otherwise. You can wish that Blizzard is better than the industry standard but in that case it does not seem 'reasonable' to me to expect it by definiton.
The problem with your argument is that there is literally no advantage to using their "solution" over what StormKnight suggests other than saving one dev a few hours of time because they already did it wrong the first time. And lets not forget they are changing the source ability to one known to cause crashes, when they could be, oh I don't know, fixing those crashes? Even if industry standards are low lets not pretend it's too much for us to ask that they don't mess up Reforged more than they already have when they basicly just promised to fix it. This isn't a case of people getting mad at not supporting some decade old stuff, it's people getting mad at stupidity.
 
Level 17
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Nov 12, 2016
Messages
792
What standards? the ones you made up based on what you want?

they literally removed campaigns from the game, remember that?

Go back and read the amount of things they fucked up with the reforged release and the patches that followed and tell me about these standards that blizzard has supposedly upheld so far. This doesn't even get into the top 10 as far as making maps unplayable. That does not make what blizzard did okay but it shows that standards is not an argument that holds any weight, not anymore.

You're not wrong though, it would be nice if things did not break. I just don't like the 'argument' "but they should", it's hollow.

Your response is exactly why its important to prevent them from further causing damage to the game, as in, you point out correctly that if they really wanted to care we have a spreadsheet of a billion problems, but from my perspective, every time we grow slowly hollow to the idea of these updates getting worse than they are is exactly what will lead to making them worse every time, because there is no backlash.

Think about it, If there was no outcry for anything we might aswell be playing on the version of Reforged in 2020 that still had the classic graphics lighting completely screwed.

And your very last sentence in this paragraph, every single problem they HAVE bothered to fix was pushed on by people who said "but they should."
Otherwise, none of this matters.
You're locking onto details that don't matter. Why should I need to update an addon that changes my UI? iT wOrKeD lAsT paTcH. Nor does quality of the product matter. The only thing that matter is that it's not the industry standard to support things forever and you've not shown anything to show otherwise. You can wish that Blizzard is better than the industry standard but in that case it does not seem 'reasonable' to me to expect it by definiton.

I failed to understand your initial sentence regarding addons so i'll just repeat what i said before, as far as i understood, wow addons kinda took the game hostage because of how many people expected you to use them and would give you weird looks if you didnt, to put it mildly, i countered you by saying this is not what the war3 custom community does so bringing it up as an example in contrast to war3 is inappropriate.

Now on with the rest of the paragraph; I dont know why you think its a smart decision to invoke "but its not industry standard" as a way to counter me ? of course its not industry standard, all of warcraft 3 custom games are something no game right now would even do. However, you will find that most games with some level of community content all have different out of norm things done by the developers to the game to make sure the community of said game thrives which adversely gives longevity to the game.

I bet you, me and you would probably see a certain change as nothing serious while the custom community of a different game will see it as an outrageous disgrace and make sure their developers hear about how they dont like this change by shouting from the rooftops. This, is standard among many games and communities, and Warcraft 3 has its own versions of whats dangerous for the game, whether its major bugs, removed campaigns, or a sign that the development team could end up carelessly rewriting minor or major custom abilities for their convenience. Its that simple.

We've done this for the classic team from 1.28 to 1.32.10. If we cant reach Blizzard at large, we might be able to reach a developer as we did before. We wont know their names, they wont know who we are either.
Although I mentioned that I should stay out of the discussion because I will not win because I simply disagree with anyone who disagrees with me, in hindsight, I feel it is worth noting:

We do have power but like anything it grows or deflates depending on circumstances and the willingness/drive of people, Reforged would be flat dead with only melee games and a few tournaments away from extinction if the community, whether its people who made W3Champions to all the custom games community members and tool writers who made sure Blizzard was aware of their existence, and if they start to forget as often times as they have tried to, thats what a constant stream of feedback and pushback is required to remind them.

Like, i cant emphasise enough just how desert dust ball dead would Reforged be if everyone gave up on pushing back. The only thing large companies understand is fear of backlash and an overwhelming signal boost for addressing issues, because you know, no QR team. They pretend to be sophisticated behind their forums and pretend to react to constructive feedback but in reality they just respond to backlash.

There are absolutely developers inside game companies who will go agaisnt "best practice" to reach out directly to people and see whats up, but that's not happening much around these days, outside of that standalone studios tend to be more chill, because the technology people are equal or greater than the marketing people. Its in those scenarios where very, and i mean VERY important issues can be fixed not because there was a backlash but because there was like, one nerd in the youtube comment section who wrote something brilliant and one of the developers was just vibing in the comment section and ended up being like "this is a pretty good piece of feedback, i should report to the team".

Warcraft 3 is not lead by standalone studio, and i wish it was, At this point this is not a video game that needs to be under the umbrella of some uber company owned by another company owned by a greater company. Too much bureaucracy.
 
Level 6
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Jul 15, 2015
Messages
124
Post this on the official forum.
Agreed, I will leave the link to it here to make it easier:
 
Level 26
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Dec 24, 2019
Messages
488
Well, I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but right now, trying to edit my latest project with version 2.0, the maps (created with 1.31.1) don't even open (not all of them, some do and others don't), it just gives an error and closes everything. I've been working on this for five months and I'm in the final stages of development, but honestly, I feel like giving up. Since Reforged came out, everything has been problematic. All the sounds that took me hours to configure don't work well in 2.0, broke portraits... Now this, maps that can't even be edited in 2.0 for who knows what reason.

I don't know, no joke, Blizzard has managed to completely destroy my love for Warcraft 3 and everything related to it. The magnitude of the disaster is such that I highly doubt I'll ever do anything else again. If I finish this project, it'll be too much, and I don't plan on touching the World Editor or the game again for anything. In fact, as soon as I'm done (if I don't explode with rage before), I'm going to uninstall the game and that's it.

If every time I try to do something outside of the pre-Reforged version of the game (1.31.1) I end up angry and raging, well, it's not worth it. And since it's mandatory to have it to play the current content, well, that's it... And now someone will get offended and tell me I'm making inappropriate comments about this shitty company that only knows how to laugh at its customers.

NOTE: I'm commenting on this in the heat of the moment; right now I'm burning with rage. Maybe tomorrow, when I'm calmer, I'll see it differently, but I need to vent, or I'll explode.
 
Level 7
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Jan 19, 2019
Messages
56
Well, I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but right now, trying to edit my latest project with version 2.0, the maps (created with 1.31.1) don't even open (not all of them, some do and others don't),
Make sure you have HD graphics turned off and you use SD in the Editor itself. That causes crashes
 
Level 26
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
488
Make sure you have HD graphics turned off and you use SD in the Editor itself. That causes crashes
It has nothing to do with it, I didn't pay for that Reforged garbage, I just have the updated version of the game, nothing more. Simply put, 2.0 is an absolute disaster, surpassing even previous disasters.

EDIT: In fact, without touching anything at all, it suddenly opens maps it couldn't before. It's a marvel of the gaming industry... They really should give them an award or something, because it takes talent to do something this bad. These kinds of things don't happen by accident. Every day I'm more convinced that Reforged and all its updates are made with ChatGPT.

EDIT 2: And a minute later it crashes again when trying to open the same maps :xxd: :xxd: :xxd: It's WONDERFUL
 
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Level 28
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Jun 20, 2013
Messages
769
So let's me see if i'm getting the right information.

Instead of doing

Orb of slow (Old)

Copy and paste with new ID

Orb of slow (new/2.0/whatever)

They just used the one in the data and broke a lot of stuff, but it is right because we are telling you UwU.

If this level of monkeydiddleryfuckery was related to decupling the hard code of stun and other elements to allow "total freedom" when editing a sizeable number of natives skills, then the balance was on the positive as the potential results would free mapmakers of having to code like 40% less of triggered spells, as most simple ones are trying to move around these hard coded limitations.

But for something they had done before with a very childproof method and causing this... I'm half between "fool" and "arrogance"
 
Level 26
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
488
How do you have an updated version that Isn't Reforged?
To update the game, you don't need to buy Reforged. You just need the original game. All original copies are updated to the latest version. The only difference is that you can't enable HD graphics. Reforged is just a crappy graphics patch that lets you play with generic MOBA graphics. But obviously, if you didn't buy the original game, all you can buy is that garbage.

Regards.

EDIT: In fact, NO ONE should buy Reforged; it's a fraudulent product that absolutely NO ONE should support. But hey, people would sell their moms to defend their favorite multi-million dollar company, even though said company poops on their chest every day.
 
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Level 48
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Jul 29, 2008
Messages
9,824
If you want to voice opposition to the Orb of Slow change you should do so on the forums under the patch notes. Multiple people already did so, and we know Blizzard reads these.

The more ppl speak up the more likely it is they'll listen
Oh you better believe he already did. ; )

Are people even using the Orb of Slow ability?

I do not care for the discussion about the whole principle, leave me out of that discussion and fight it out among yourselves
and oppose as much as you will, I am just curious if someone actually uses that thing.
Sure, that one (along with Orb of Lightning) were quite useful in that they allowed you to make a passive "chance-on-attack" ability which can apply (cast) most any arbitrary ability on a target attacked unit. Aside from the "doesn't work on auto-attacks" issue, it's pretty nifty.
 
Level 17
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Nov 12, 2016
Messages
792
LET THE @#$@ SHOW BEGIN.

Lycan/Lord Damage were quick to check in the new patch and discovered that Moon Glaive is also NOT a new ability, and it has a blue weapon glow, which means any map that used this passive ability as a hidden "it does nothing" trick is going to have units running around with glowing weapons.

The Neutral version of Immolation was nerfed but it is the same Immolation the Dreadlords Infernal has so that one is also now nerfed.

Orb of Slow has 2 new abilities but it is carried by the same old item, aka, they didn't make a new item to carry the new abilities.

Time for another bug report.
 
Level 30
Joined
Jun 4, 2023
Messages
419
To update the game, you don't need to buy Reforged... <snip> even though said company poops on their chest every day.

Bro give me a break, I'd hardly had any interaction with Blizzard for ~15 years* before buying Reforged because I wanted to start playing with the editor, and assumed there was no other way. What were you supposed to do if you couldn't find your disks from a liftime ago? I assume this site isn't pro-piracy, right?


*If you don't count playing a Vanilla private server for a couple years; Kronos if anyone's interested.
 
Level 26
Joined
Dec 24, 2019
Messages
488
Bro give me a break, I'd hardly had any interaction with Blizzard for ~15 years* before buying Reforged because I wanted to start playing with the editor, and assumed there was no other way. What were you supposed to do if you couldn't find your disks from a liftime ago? I assume this site isn't pro-piracy, right?


*If you don't count playing a Vanilla private server for a couple years; Kronos if anyone's interested.
Oh no, don't worry, it's not personal. I mean, I have nothing against you or anyone else who buys Reforged, and well, like I said, if you not own the original game, then buying Reforged is your only option. I'm just saying that people shouldn't get carried away by their fanaticism or nostalgia, and they shouldn't defend the indefensible (I say this mostly because many people will give me dirty looks for saying the obvious, that Reforged is crap 🤣). And then everyone can do what they think is right :thumbs_up:

Regards.

EDIT: Although you are not required to play the current version of the game, you can use a pre-reforged version with your original key HERE (without hacking anything), for example, I use version 1.31.1 to create my projects.
 
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Level 11
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
205
Bro give me a break, I'd hardly had any interaction with Blizzard for ~15 years* before buying Reforged because I wanted to start playing with the editor, and assumed there was no other way. What were you supposed to do if you couldn't find your disks from a liftime ago? I assume this site isn't pro-piracy, right?


*If you don't count playing a Vanilla private server for a couple years; Kronos if anyone's interested.
Before reforged launched, Blizzard had a link with its "old games", on that web page you could buy both RoC and TFT virtually discs (it was really REALLY cheap) the link was well hidden though. Of course, last time I checked, now that link is out of existence and the only way you can legally obtain W3 is by buying reforged.

On Topic:
Since this last update -I haven't tested anything related to the patch but I wanted to continue the game I was playing last week, but, to my surprse, the load file was gone, in fact my last save is from last year. ☠
 
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