Favorite Reforged Dragon so far

[MasterHaosis]

Originally it is named Fountain of Blood but they changed it for that chapter for some reason.

Yes and those fountains in gates of Abyss chapters are named Fountains of Health. But red/blood/chaotic water instead of blue haha

Satyrs can be necromancers.

Yes. Those Satyrs in Reforged looks good.

Yeah but that's not a melee oriented map. The AI doesn't send troops that might encounter those by accident or chance.

Oh but there are tons of various player stuff around which they can accidentally clash, but they don't. Also, in that Death revenant campaign those neutral Fulborgs are basically right above player (those wandering around defiled fountain of life), Undead, Orc and Human players can fly above them sometimes.

Not really. You can set the alliance aspect in the triggers as neutral so then they won't come to help those "allies".

Oh yes I forgot about triggers

Yeah, it's a contradiction. That's why I don't use external material because of the confusion that can ensue.
In the game we only see Death Knights in the TfT chapter where Furion and Illidan have to save Tyrande. It is not explained.
For instance Lich heroes in the RoC Human Campaign are explained by the fact that the Death Knights following Ner'zhul were all turned to liches as Ner'zhul but only the orc was imprisoned while the others were left "free" under tLK's command. Also, in RoC's last night elf chapter, there's a lich working under the Burning Legion.

He clarly says that he is one of his first Death Knights. What happened in WcII does not count as this is different game. it is said those death knights are converted into liches. So those Death Knights in Wc3 are actually first of new Lich King, not old Nerzul.
it says in Manual
,,Encased within the frozen cask, Ner’zhul felt his consciousness expand ten thousand fold. Warped by the demon’s chaotic powers, Ner’zhul became a spectral being of unfathomable power. At that moment, the orc known as Ner’zhul was shattered forever, and the Lich King was born. Ner’zhul’s loyal death knights and warlock followers were also transformed by the demon’s chaotic energies. The wicked spell casters were ripped apart and remade as skeletal Liches. The demons had ensured that even in death, Ner’zhul’s followers would serve him unquestioningly"
So, there are no more old Death knights. I was talking about WCIII Death knights, they are formed Paladins.

Here another one from manual
,,While on Draenor, Ner'zhul commanded a number of orcish warlocks and spellwielding death knights. Yet, when Kil'jaeden and the Legion captured these sorcerers after that world’s destruction, they were transformed into twisted, spectral aberrations of their former selves. These newly born liches possessed tremendous magical powers, yet their immortal, undead bodies were bound to the iron will of Ner'zhul. As payment for their undying loyalty to Ner'zhul, the Lich King granted them control over the furious elements of Northrend. Now, the liches wield frost magic along with their own considerable necromantic spells."

 

[deepstrasz]

He clarly says that he is one of his first Death Knights. What happened in WcII does not count as this is different game. it is said those death knights are converted into liches. So those Death Knights in Wc3 are actually first of new Lich King, not old Nerzul.

OK, either that means other Death Knights came after Arthas (ravaged the paladin order) or first means the strongest/best of the DKs at that time, maybe even before Arthas came to Northrend.

it says in Manual

I know. I've mentioned that before.

I was talking about WCIII Death knights, they are formed Paladins.

Judging by the B.net link only. The manual doesn't say that.

As payment for their undying loyalty to Ner'zhul, the Lich King granted them control over the furious elements of Northrend. Now, the liches wield frost magic along with their own considerable necromantic spells."

Nice! Maybe, they also made tLK's armour and Frostmourne? Who knows.

 

[MasterHaosis]

OK, either that means other Death Knights came after Arthas (ravaged the paladin order) or first means the strongest/best of the DKs at that time, maybe even before Arthas came to Northrend.

Well yeah. Is he was first of them, as you pointed out there must be others came there to Northrend.

I know. I've mentioned that before.

Oh sorry, then somehow I must skipped that. We were talking lot! RAPID FIRE!!!

Judging by the B.net link only. The manual doesn't say that.

But manual does not need to say all. B.net is also offical. Usually those two fill gaps in storyline (but sometimes create confusion haha).
They do not need to copy exact word of manual. One can assume since manual wrote ,, These former heroes". Hero for Human is only Paladin. Well Garithos is another type of hero, and he is after arthas corruption and first death knights thing. Also Those Archmages were slaying and were restless ghosts there in ruins of Dalaran. They are wizards and they turn out to be different after death. So, only heroes of humans whose are left are Paladins for that moment.

Nice! Maybe, they also made tLK's armour and Frostmourne? Who knows.

Oh. I do not know but as you say, that one is pretty unexplained.

 

[deepstrasz]

But manual does not need to say all. B.net is also offical. Usually those two fill gaps in storyline (but sometimes create confusion haha).

Sure but that way any external material, books etc. and of course WoW are canon...

Hero for Human is only Paladin.

The Archmage too. But hero doesn't literally mean the ones in melee games. Gameplay for story context doesn't always work, rarely actually.

So, only heroes of humans whose are left are Paladins for that moment.

I see but I would not want to agree because Arthas massacred all Paladins there and raised none.
I mean, for me, it doesn't make sense that you must be a paladin to become a death knight. That's just silly. Actually, paladins should be harder to convert since they have the Light.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Sure but that way any external material, books etc. and of course WoW are canon...

But I was talking aboit Wc3. When I play Wc3, I want to know about Wc3, not what WOW says. If b.net says something regarding Wc3 only before WOW even happened that is one thing. WOW is canon but only for WOW players, since they needed updated storylines, more characters, races... more world to explore thna you have chaos... Too many races and subraces, it is not funny any more.

The Archmage too. But hero doesn't literally mean the ones in melee games. Gameplay for story context doesn't always work, rarely actually.

Oh, I meant by those whose went to Northrend as manuel and bnet said. Those heroes converted there by Lich Kings. We only seen Arthas and it was mentioned Paladins, but I n ever heard that Archmage became death knight.

I see but I would not want to agree because Arthas massacred all Paladins there and raised none.
I mean, for me, it doesn't make sense that you must be a paladin to become a death knight. That's just silly. Actually, paladins should be harder to convert since they have the Light.

I agree. It is silly to me too. But you know, that raised things. Remember when I told you that I saw once that Revenants were Paladins... Those were actually deathlords! They look same as Revenants.
It sayd that contains lore here Deathlord

 

[deepstrasz]

I agree. It is silly to me too. But you know, that raised things. Remember when I told you that I saw once that Revenants were Paladins... Those were actually deathlords! They look same as Revenants.
It sayd that contains lore here Deathlord

Haha. They should have made a custom model for them, lol because they look like they don't even have a body.
Rexxar's campaign is the beginning of WoW

 

[MasterHaosis]

Haha. They should have made a custom model for them, lol because they look like they don't even have a body.

Yeah! And it even confused me that they marked them as revenants. So thats is why I though (additionally that death revenant in night elf mission) that they are part of Undeads. (considering that death is not stage as water, flame, ice, earth)

Rexxar's campaign is the beginning of WoW

Yes that is why I am cautious
Even offical, this is also offically intro in WOW, basically into gameplay. Grunt which cost 1000 gold or something like that, overpriced items, portals, huge buildings....
Howeverm very basic basement things are definitely to be taken. For example Thrall obviously made base as their home in Barrens. And that beastmaster is from there too (ah his animals) and thats it. Obviously you need to find origins for something what is already in WC3, and that is explained there. Oh, also I remember when Thrall sent grom there to harvest lumber for settlement that it was decided to be in barrens but I cannot remember correctly

 

[deepstrasz]

Yeah! And it even confused me that they marked them as revenants. So thats is why I though (additionally that death revenant in night elf mission) that they are part of Undeads. (considering that death is not stage as water, flame, ice, earth)

Yeah, the only mage we know tLK corrupted/turned was Kel'Thuzad but did not become a death knight but a Lich ultimately but for that the wizard had to die. Also, being a mage turning into a knight would be weird.

 

[MasterHaosis]

I know that you like my new discoverings.
And now we know that mystery about sword!

It turned out that Lich King actually made that sword and somehow threw it there for purpose!

Also regarding Northrend

That was on shore when they first time anchored there. I was right about that for humans it is very cold there.
Also, during missions there in TFT I just noticed that in last obelisk mission there is no snowfalling, but in merging Arthas with Lich King there is.
Also, if you notice when click on Undead Campaign, Arthas is standing there looking at you, behind him is sun actually, but seems weak. Also light snowfall. When in main menu you see shining frozen throne with clouds and again light snowfall. Regardless of sun or clouds, there is always somehow snowing. Northrend man, I can take you to vacation there on winter holiday. Take skies!

 

[deepstrasz]

I know that you like my new discoverings.
And now we know that mystery about sword!

Yeah, I wrote about the first one before.

It turned out that Lich King actually made that sword and somehow threw it there for purpose!

Maybe, it's not specified. The same with the armour.

When in main menu you see shining frozen throne with clouds and again light snowfall. Regardless of sun or clouds, there is always somehow snowing. Northrend man, I can take you to vacation there on winter holiday. Take skies!

I mean, sure it snows in Antarctica too but not that much over one year.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Hey but I did not notice much of blue Dragons there

 

[deepstrasz]

Hey but I did not notice much of blue Dragons there

Many have been probably killed by tLK. Honestly, we don't see much of the dragons anywhere just some few levels for each continent.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Many have been probably killed by tLK. Honestly, we don't see much of the dragons anywhere just some few levels for each continent.

Oh yeah! You are right. When I remember actually, I did not see Dragons much during campaign. That is mainly because they are minor characters here. They should be more. Also, here they seem to be hunted much. Dwarves were hunting black dragons. In one mission, Arthas killed Sappiron and blue Dragons (turning some of them in Frost Wyrms). I rememeber somewhere in barrens Gold Dragons, but also not much. I can't remember in Ashenvalle green Dragons in missions at all. Damn Blizzard removed Tharifas mission. Only in Outland you see much of Dragons and even they are created as troops. Red Dragons from bestiary, and nether Dragons from those Gates. Ah yes, red Dragons being trained from dragon roost by those Orc Warlocks in mission when you need to destroy orcs with undead.

 

[deepstrasz]

I can't remember in Ashenvalle green Dragons in missions at all

Me neither.

Red Dragons from bestiary, and nether Dragons from those Gates. Ah yes, red Dragons being trained from dragon roost by those Orc Warlocks in mission when you need to destroy orcs with undead.

Yeah, they also could have had black ones.

Also, no dragons appear in the end map.

 

[MasterHaosis]

@deepstrasz see Nether Dragon in action! This battle is cool. Look at it, beautiful purple shades and that shark tail

EDIT; 11 minutes 11 sec

 

[deepstrasz]

@deepstrasz see Nether Dragon in action! This battle is cool. Look at it, beautiful purple shades and that shark tail

Where man? Not gonna watch 45 mins of that. Did a quick skim but nothing.

Lol @ classic TFT Illidan, of course it's much better

 

[MasterHaosis]

EDIT; 11 minutes 11 sec there you can see dragon, and some fights with it

 

[deepstrasz]

EDIT; 11 minutes 11 sec there you can see dragon, and some fights with it

Judging by that look, they should bite not spit black smoke.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Judging by that look, they should bite not spit black smoke.

But it is something like death energy! Shadow attack or something like that. Dangerous as breath of any dragon.
Now, see those in action, I took screenshots

@Venombite @Misha @MogulKahn
How you like demonic air units so far? I like it and its just beta, it can be only better

 

[Venombite]

@MasterHaosis first of all there are no Demon air units in game. Nether Dragons are not Demons, they are Dragons malshaped by Nether/Void energies and have evolved into something else. They do not serve the Legion willingly, but have been enslaved by Demon and Eredar magic, like the Voidwalkers. Demon flying units from WoW, like Felbats aren't going to make it into the game, it might have been their plan back in 2018, but who even remembers what was said a year ago, we'll never know. Also Red Dragons in this map are a big lore inconsistency, they should be Black and I'm hoping they'll change that at least.
That being said, I don't thik this is how they'll look in game. I've been watching a couple of BETA videos and all of them are happening in Lordaeron Summer tileset. I haven't seen a single one in Outland tileset, so I think that this is not their final look, and that they will look somehow more etherial. Same thing for the Voidwalkers. However this is a great base model, and will look totally badass once they are finalised.
Again back in 2018, when they were going to TBC-ise this Campaign, I'm fairly certain their plan was to split this chapter into a few smaller chapters. This theory is also backed by the argument that the Broken/Lost Ones Draenei were meant to get a playable chapter, which is so obviouse cause of so many building models, unit models and icons. I guess there was going to be missions where Illidan Blood Elves/Naga ally with the Draenei and close the first portal, than a mission in Zangeamash where Illidan, Lady Vashj and Naga close the second, than Illidan, Kael and the Blood Elves close the third in Blade's Edge Mountains, and in Nagrad where Illidan, Akama and the Draenei close the fourth. All of these with appropriate enemies like Mag'har Orcs(not Demon allies) in Nagrad, Fel Orcs with Ogres and Black Dragons in Blade Edge Mountains etc...all spiced up with Arakkoa and Etherial creeps. But who knows, we'll never know. Who remembers their plans from a year ago xD

 

[deepstrasz]

But it is something like death energy! Shadow attack or something like that. Dangerous as breath of any dragon.

I mean, it doesn't look fine with the new model. Might have made some sort of hot steam.

How you like demonic air units so far?

Just those flying sharks, no other flying demonic unis.

Also, please use spoiler/hidden tags on large images.

Nether Dragons are not Demons, they are Dragons malshaped by Nether/Void energies

Let me stop you right there, WoW fan
I agree with most but I like to think there exists native type of dragons or in the Twisting Nether otherwise we'll have to call them demonic dragons because they've been corrupted. The Twisting Nether is home to the demons. The RoC manual doesn't not say anything about the Old Gods being native or coming from the nether but that they were just present on Azeroth. So, they might be native to Azeroth.

Also Red Dragons in this map are a big lore inconsistency, they should be Black and I'm hoping they'll change that at least.

Not totally. From the Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal transcript:

Spoiler

3.2 - V. Dragons of Blackrock Spire (DBRS)

Objectives:

-Capture as many dragons as possible

-Capture the dragon roost nestled high in the mountains


Briefing

When the Horde was driven back into the Black Morass, we were able to only take a small portion of our forces through the Dark Portal before it was destroyed. With the Dragon Queen Alexstrasza rescued and the Dragonmaw clan captured by the Alliance, we were no longer able to command these great winged beasts.

While securing the rift and beginning construction of a new portal, your encampment is approached by a haggard Grunt. His uniform marks him as a warrior of the Bleeding Hollow. He tells how those of his clan who did not return through the Portal have eluded capture and imprisonment by the Alliance armies. You also learn that many of the Dragons that were once enslaved have continued to feed upon Humans and are now roosting at Blackrock Spire. If you can break through the Human defenses and gain the trust of these creatures, perhaps you can bring Ner'zhul powerful allies.

Spoiler

7.2 - II. The Battle for Nethergarde (TBFN)

Objectives:

-Destroy all enemy forces

-Danath must survive


Briefing

A great host of Orcs have reconstructed the Dark Portal and now lay siege to the Citadel of Nethergarde. The Horde still maintain their hold over the great winged dragons of Azeroth.

A faction of these creatures, seeming to have grown to crave the taste of battle, have become willing allies with the Orcs under the leadership of a great Black Dragon known only as Deathwing.

Danath has been asked to raise an army from New Stormwind to relieve the beleaguered forces at Nethergarde and drive the Horde back towards the Portal. You must lead the forces of Azeroth in an attempt to break the vanguard of the invading Horde, for unless their assault is stopped, they will gain dominion over the Black Morass.

From: Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition - Game Script - PC - By ironyisntdead - GameFAQs

his theory is also backed by the argument that the Broken/Lost Ones Draenei were meant to get a playable chapter, which is so obviouse cause of so many building models, unit models and icons.

Are you certain? To me, those looked like the replaced/reforged versions of the ones in TfT. Did you see anything new in addition to those in the original game?

I guess there was going to be missions where Illidan Blood Elves/Naga ally with the Draenei and close the first portal, than a mission in Zangeamash where Illidan, Lady Vashj and Naga close the second, than Illidan, Kael and the Blood Elves close the third in Blade's Edge Mountains, and in Nagrad where Illidan, Akama and the Draenei close the fourth. All of these with appropriate enemies like Mag'har Orcs(not Demon allies) in Nagrad, Fel Orcs with Ogres and Black Dragons in Blade Edge Mountains etc...all spiced up with Arakkoa and Etherial creeps.

Seen no Arrakoa models for Reforged yet.
Also, that would not be a good decision since the gameplay would be the same in two chapters and that's not how game design works. Every chapter has its design.

 

[Venombite]

Not totally. From the Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal transcript:

Spoiler

3.2 - V. Dragons of Blackrock Spire (DBRS)

Objectives:

-Capture as many dragons as possible

-Capture the dragon roost nestled high in the mountains


Briefing

When the Horde was driven back into the Black Morass, we were able to only take a small portion of our forces through the Dark Portal before it was destroyed. With the Dragon Queen Alexstrasza rescued and the Dragonmaw clan captured by the Alliance, we were no longer able to command these great winged beasts.

While securing the rift and beginning construction of a new portal, your encampment is approached by a haggard Grunt. His uniform marks him as a warrior of the Bleeding Hollow. He tells how those of his clan who did not return through the Portal have eluded capture and imprisonment by the Alliance armies. You also learn that many of the Dragons that were once enslaved have continued to feed upon Humans and are now roosting at Blackrock Spire. If you can break through the Human defenses and gain the trust of these creatures, perhaps you can bring Ner'zhul powerful allies.

Spoiler

7.2 - II. The Battle for Nethergarde (TBFN)

Objectives:

-Destroy all enemy forces

-Danath must survive


Briefing

A great host of Orcs have reconstructed the Dark Portal and now lay siege to the Citadel of Nethergarde. The Horde still maintain their hold over the great winged dragons of Azeroth.

A faction of these creatures, seeming to have grown to crave the taste of battle, have become willing allies with the Orcs under the leadership of a great Black Dragon known only as Deathwing.

Danath has been asked to raise an army from New Stormwind to relieve the beleaguered forces at Nethergarde and drive the Horde back towards the Portal. You must lead the forces of Azeroth in an attempt to break the vanguard of the invading Horde, for unless their assault is stopped, they will gain dominion over the Black Morass.

From: Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition - Game Script - PC - By ironyisntdead - GameFAQs

No, these things have been retconned in "Day of the Dragon" way before RoC came out. So Alexstrasza was freed only after the events of Wc2 BtDP. And it would make sense that Dragons that eat humans are Deathwings Black Dragons, it's what they do, not Red. Also serving the orcs willingly, again the Black. They were ordered by their Aspect to fight for the Horde, so that he could escape Alliance and Red Dragonflights wrath.

Are you certain? To me, those looked like the replaced/reforged versions of the ones in TfT. Did you see anything new in addition to those in the original game?

Kinda, there are more datamined models, than there are creeps(not counting the worker and Akama). Plus there is also a Draenei Catapult. And a lot of buildings, so it kinda seemed like it.

Seen no Arrakoa models for Reforged yet.

If they were planed, by now they have been cut, sadly

Also, that would not be a good decision since the gameplay would be the same in two chapters and that's not how game design works. Every chapter has its design.

No. They could easily invent the mechanics. Not all the gates have to be closed the same way. Not all chapters have to be base building. Different tilesets. Other stuff, like Zangramash one could be with ships and water combat. And even controling different races and different enemies is already different enough.

 

[deepstrasz]

No, these things have been retconned in "Day of the Dragon" way before RoC came out.

Sure but in the RoC manual it's not specified. There's a short Day of the Dragon chapter.

And it would make sense that Dragons that eat humans are Deathwings Black Dragons, it's what they do, not Red.

Lol, most if not all dragons are carnivores. They even have Devour.
And it would make sense with them being red as they are raised from infancy by orcs. Also, they might be corrupted by fel magiks.

Plus there is also a Draenei Catapult. And a lot of buildings, so it kinda seemed like it.

Those replace the ones in TfT. Nothing suspicious there.

than there are creeps(not counting the worker and Akama).

Well, Draenei Workers and Akama are not creeps/neutral. There are plenty of melee draenei units.

No. They could easily invent the mechanics. Not all the gates have to be closed the same way. Not all chapters have to be base building. Different tilesets. Other stuff, like Zangramash one could be with ships and water combat. And even controling different races and different enemies is already different enough.

Sure but I don't think the plan was to add new chapter at all, only change the existent ones.

 

[Venombite]

Those replace the ones in TfT. Nothing suspicious there.

Well, Draenei Workers and Akama are not creeps/neutral. There are plenty of melee draenei units.

I don't remember them ever having a Catapult. Nor so many buildings, they had like 2 or 3 that were all using the same model.

Lol, most if not all dragons are carnivores. They even have Devour.
And it would make sense with them being red as they are raised from infancy by orcs. Also, they might be corrupted by fel magiks.

Ok this really getting neardy. But green dragons aren't carnivores, how could they even eat when they spend countless milennia sleeping. Also the red don't seem to be that style. They bring life. Their domain has all flowers, red trees, vegetation all little animals and stuff. They protectors and bringers of life. The Black domain is scorched earth, and they torture humans and animals they capture, it's what they do. And they are far more violent than the red. Check WoWpedia if you care. At least creep models, Draenei buildings most of all, show that WoW is cannon now

Edit @deepstrasz you seem to know Diablo lore too, has it too been retconned a lot over the course of four games?

 

[MasterHaosis]

They do not serve the Legion willingly, but have been enslaved by Demon and Eredar magic, like the Voidwalkers.

If that is from WOW it does not count here. We are talking about WC3, not WOW. We said that many times by now. But we will have to wait and see if Reforged will change something in lore. Maybe they will adapt, we will see.
But even if they are enslaved, does not mean much in WC3 at least. They are used by demons, they are in Outland, coming from twisting nether, you need to destroy them. Does not change fact that they are their air units now.

Also Red Dragons in this map are a big lore inconsistency, they should be Black and I'm hoping they'll change that at least.

Well, deepstarasz know better than us about this things, he seems to be fanatic for old lore.
Maybe yo uare right, but still, they could always hide those eggs from before. Remember that those red Dragons are being trained from beastiary, not from dragon roost.

I mean, it doesn't look fine with the new model. Might have made some sort of hot steam.

Oh that. Yes.

Just those flying sharks, no other flying demonic unis.

haha but unique idea! Seems that people liked them in this poll.

Let me stop you right there, WoW fan

YEAH TELL THEM! NOWOW!

 

[deepstrasz]

Ok this really getting neardy. But green dragons aren't carnivores, how could they even eat when they spend countless milennia sleeping. Also the red don't seem to be that style. They bring life. Their domain has all flowers, red trees, vegetation all little animals and stuff. They protectors and bringers of life.

There's a Red Dragon fighting some harpies in the RoC orc chapter called The Oracle. The dragon is even mentioned to protect treasure. Note, that this is an underground/cavern zone.
But fear not, we have answers to most.

Spoiler

Check WoWpedia if you care. At least creep models, Draenei buildings most of all, show that WoW is cannon now

You just don't bring up retcons as arguments.

I don't remember them ever having a Catapult. Nor so many buildings, they had like 2 or 3 that were all using the same model.

They have three building variations.

Spoiler

Their catapult is called Draenei Demolisher and it's basically the Orc Demolisher :\ They should create an original draenei siege/artillery weapon/unit.

Spoiler

---

@MasterHaosis more on why there are few dragons

Spoiler

@Venombite not all green dragons sleep. See in the spoiler tag above.

haha but unique idea! Seems that people liked them in this poll.

I like the flying sharks but I don't want them to replace the Nether Dragons. They could be Void/demonic/Twisting Nether creatures, these flying sharks, I don't mind but not Nether Dragons.

Also, even though Maiev doesn't directly quarrel with Tyrande about Illidan, the hero has a quote about it saying: "Tyrande will pay for setting Illidan free!"
Everything Maiev says in the soundset and throughout the campaign until the last Night Elf chapter is about capturing Illidan, putting the demon hunter back in prison. Suddenly, at the end the warden wants to execute the demon hunter after Furion says imprisonment won't be enough
Funny is that there's a chapter where you have to save Illidan (in the wagon prison) from Maiev afterward. So, Maiev didn't actually want to execute Illidan

 

[Venombite]

@deepstrasz not all green dragons sleep, but a large majority does, so they can't eat (lol). The manual doesn't even mention Bronze Dragons. Red Dragon was protecting the artifact and Harpies attacked it, it wanted to keep the artifact from lesser races, so they don't endager other life. I guess we were supposed to imagine flowers and stuff in its layers. Also the manual says that Black Dragons are in the Barrens, witch is just not true. Bronze Dragons are in the Barrens, Black are in Lordaeron Fall tileset. Also Blue Dragonflight, although all but extinct is acctually as numerous as green and bronze, and like ten times more numerous than the Black.

Huh I never noticed they had Demolishers. However they only had three buildings, now they have seven (more than the Naga ), among those a farm, Chiftains Hut(Altar) etc....

 

[deepstrasz]

The manual doesn't even mention Bronze Dragons.

It does not mention a lot, sadly.

Also the manual says that Black Dragons are in the Barrens, witch is just not true.

It says a few dragons have made their home there, not all of them (remaining ones) and you should remember Onyxia and Duswallow Marsh being a WoW fan and all.

Black are in Lordaeron Fall tileset

Melee gameplay wise yes.
We see black dragons two times in two RoC campaigns: first in Lordaeron with Arthas and second in Kalimdor (Barrow Deeps) with Furion). Both times, they are mentioned by characters, so it's not decor. We don't however see black dragons in Outland at all. I guess the few of them that remained are on Azeroth after Deathwing's demise. Deathwing came back from Outland, so it's pretty natural the dragon lord would not have left the dragonflight to be ordered around by the orcs. However, that does not really explain that much how any dragon, even red ones still remained on Draenor after the Horde's defeat in Beyond the Dark Portal. I guess, there were some eggs here and there that hatched some "queens" too which the orcs then raised and bred.
And since in Warcraft II only Deathwing was mentioned as being black, and with the observations above, it's somewhat safe to assume that black dragons were either never on Draenor, died out in Beyond the Dark Portal or left back to Azeroth or ran through the rifts into the Twisting Nether were they most probably found their doom.

However they only had three buildings, now they have seven (more than the Naga ), among those a farm, Chiftains Hut(Altar) etc....

The problem with the new buildings is that they don't look Broken or Warcraft III at all, they look WoW. That wouldn't be much of a problem if the draenei would look more like how they were before becoming so, not that I'd want that though. I would like them to make those buildings fit the Warcraft III Broken draenei look, mushrooms and all, basically, post-end of the world (apocalyptic, how they call it...). Because now, it's weird. It's like cavemen with Ancient-Medieval architecture :\

I didn't see more than three here (video) though. Not sure what the others you mentioned are.

 

[Venombite]

Onyxia and Duswallow Marsh being a WoW fan and all.

Dustwallow Marsh is a swamp, not desert. And Onyxia and her brood scortched the earth around her layer.

Deathwing came back from Outland, so it's pretty natural the dragon lord would not have left the dragonflight to be ordered around by the orcs.

Deathwing was the one who sold Black Dragons as slaves in the first place, he was the only one that managed to escape through the dark portal, forsaking everyone. The rest of them got slaughtered, only Deathwing's own son survived.

I didn't see more than three here (video) though. Not sure what the others you mentioned are.

Look at the datamined models Warcraft III Reforged Models

 

[deepstrasz]

Dustwallow Marsh is a swamp, not desert. And Onyxia and her brood scortched the earth around her layer.

The wiki says "it's surrounded by the savannas of the Barrens". Sounds pretty in the Barrens if you ask me. Might not be exactly in but quite closer than anywhere on Kalimdor. So, them retconning the addition of Dustwallow Marsh in WoW as being an enclave of the Barrens, is another thing.

Deathwing was the one who sold Black Dragons as slaves in the first place, he was the only one that managed to escape through the dark portal, forsaking everyone. The rest of them got slaughtered, only Deathwing's own son survived.

Sorry, I told you, I don't follow WoW or external material if it retcons stuff so badly.
Do you know that in Warcraft II, Deathwing allowed orcs to fly on its back so they could get faster to Dalaran? If anything, Deathwing doesn't sound like selling friends, especially own kin.

Look at the datamined models Warcraft III Reforged Models

All the pictures were named
What I could find from there:

Spoiler

Those others are huts, they are the equivalent of Troll, Gnoll, Furbolg huts also of Tents and Centaur Tents, similarly of Murloc Huts, Harpy Nets. They are neutral passive buildings used for decoration purposes. There are three types of draenei huts.

 

[MasterHaosis]

It is time for mighty MasterHaosis to rejoin in game

But fear not, we have answers to most.

And nobody should fear when deepstarasz is around! He is like mobile lore master. Well, here and there he forgets things, but that is nothing. When regarding demonic beings, I gladly correct him if needed

They have three building variations.

and both of you forgot about base defense, Boulder Tower.

Their catapult is called Draenei Demolisher and it's basically the Orc Demolisher :\ They should create an original draenei siege/artillery weapon/unit.

That Draenei Demolisher has different icon from Orc Demolisher. It is blue and in different angle.

@MasterHaosis more on why there are few dragons

Yes, without Bronze for some reason (but I have theory) and nether Dragons (which are in Outland in Frozen Throne and cannot appear in that manual).

Everything Maiev says in the soundset and throughout the campaign until the last Night Elf chapter is about capturing Illidan, putting the demon hunter back in prison. Suddenly, at the end the warden wants to execute the demon hunter after Furion says imprisonment won't be enough
Funny is that there's a chapter where you have to save Illidan (in the wagon prison) from Maiev afterward. So, Maiev didn't actually want to execute Illidan

No. That means that she wants to execute him at home. Or maybe she cannot even kill him because Furion rejected death penalty against him, so she must keep him in prison alive. But obviously she is arogant as Illidan. She literally brought battle there in Outland. And lost. If Demons saw this, can you imagine what would Magtheridon do to Night Elf there (it would be punish that bitch )

Melee gameplay wise yes.

No, I told I have theory what happened. Obviously manual mentions that black dragons are in Barrens. There is no trace of bronze dragons. BECAUSE they did not exist when manual was written. It all has sense. Black Dragons supposed to be in Barrens because Bronze ones did not exist. Then, after manual is written, the put Bronze Dragons in Barrens, thus did not have place for Black Dragons at all. That is why they put black dragons in Lordean fall. Remember there is village fall which still has red dragons ad Lordean summer. Which is weird. That proves that they put black gradons ot be at least somewhere because they were pushed from barrens.

 

[deepstrasz]

And nobody should feat when deepstarasz is around! He is like mobile lore master.

Praise the God Internet.

When regarding demonic beings, I gladly correct him if needed

Yeah, I "serve" the Light.

and both of you forgot about base defense, Boulder Tower.

Yeah, the one in the original doesn't look like draenei (Broken/Lost Ones) at all, not even the Reforged one. I hope they make a new tower fitting to the mushroom, deteriorated look.

That Draenei Demolisher has different icon from Orc Demolisher. It is blue and in different angle.

It has the Catapult icon (RoC), actually.

Yes, without Bronze for some reason (but I have theory) and nether Dragons (which are in Outland in Frozen Throne and cannot appear in that manual).

Give us knowledge oh mighty demon!

If Demons saw this, can you imagine what would Magtheridon do to Night Elf there (it would be punish that bitch )

lol don't get naughty k?

No. That means that she wants to execute him at home.

Thought about it, like a public execution, but then Maiev said to Furion "give the order and I'll execute him myself" and then they were not at a proper execution place. Regardless, Maiev was stupid not to kill Illidan when the Watchers caught the demon hunter. Maybe, Maiev had a fetish to torture Illidan or see the character locked in darkness

No, I told I have theory what happened. Obviously manual mentions that black dragons are in Barrens. There is no trace of bronze dragons. BECAUSE they did not exist when manual was written. It all has sense. Black Dragons supposed to be in Barrens because Bronze ones did not exist.

But the manual mentions Nozdormu the Bronze as one of the five dragons who bewitched (I mean, blessed) Nordrassil.
I just think they might have rushed the manual and did not edit it at all. It also has some words missing in some sentences.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Yeah, the one in the original doesn't look like draenei (Broken/Lost Ones) at all, not even the Reforged one. I hope they make a new tower fitting to the mushroom, deteriorated look.

I think that tower is literally one of blood elf buildings from campaign tower map. They are under human/campiagn buildings.

It has the Catapult icon (RoC), actually.

Oh yes! They also could use catapult model since it is unused. I never really understood why they had to replace catapult and ballista. I liked them more. But better for us. More models to use, especially if Reforged will do same.

Give us knowledge oh mighty demon!

haha! I am just humble Doom Guard. T
echically, back then in chat when people abuse that they can beat me as heroes, I also abuse system and told in that case that I am Destroyer Zardikar. And still I won. (Now you will search perhaps who was he)

lol don't get naughty k?

No, we have Sucubbusees! We do not need wretched Warden for that. But she got what she asked for. You must be crazy to follow someone in another dimension without even knowing where you are and what to expect.

Regardless, Maiev was stupid not to kill Illidan when the Watchers caught the demon hunter.

Yes! She should kill him once they captured him, and hope that they can somehow get back (although there were no portal nearby) before demons notice them. Those night elves did not have chance there.

But the manual mentions Nozdormu the Bronze as one of the five dragons who bewitched (I mean, blessed) Nordrassil.

Yes, that is weird to me. Perhaps they just did add him to additionally because manual was pushed, and did not fix it later to adapt to bronze dragon then.

I just think they might have rushed the manual and did not edit it at all. It also has some words missing in some sentences.

yes! That is what I think, but definitively Bronze dragons were added additionally. I think they mistaken that they did not put black dragons to village fall as well.

 

[deepstrasz]

Haha, Arthas has a line when reaching Azjol'Nerub exit to Ice Crown Glacier: "It'll be good to see the sun again."

think that tower is literally one of blood elf buildings from campaign tower map. They are under human/campiagn buildings.

Yeah but it still doesn't look elvish unlike the design in Reforged.

Oh yes! They also could use catapult model since it is unused.

Catapults were first seen on both humans and orcs in the first game, then only on orcs. Besides, draenei are neither humans, nor orcs and it would be nice to have an original concept fitting their race.
It's not explained if the orcs copied the concept from the humans or had one of their own before they came.

You must be crazy to follow someone in another dimension without even knowing where you are and what to expect.

Poor orcs following Blackhand (Gul'dan) through the Twisting Nether (well, actually, they kinda new where they were going; the rift was opened to Azeroth).
Poor orcs following Ner'zhul through the Twisting Nether.
Poor humans following Khadgar through the Twisting Nether.

echically, back then in chat when people abuse that they can beat me as heroes, I also abuse system and told in that case that I am Destroyer Zardikar. And still I won. (Now you will search perhaps who was he)

Infinite reincarnations, eh?

Yes! She should kill him once they captured him, and hope that they can somehow get back (although there were no portal nearby) before demons notice them. Those night elves did not have chance there.

I don't think Maiev was even thinking of getting back. The warden was too blinded by vengeance and bondage fetish on Illidan, lol.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Haha, Arthas has a line when reaching Azjol'Nerub exit to Ice Crown Glacier: "It'll be good to see the sun again."

haha regardless that they are Undead thus they do not need sun and that there is rarely sun in Northrend
But anyway those creatures made him wish to see sun again!

Yeah but it still doesn't look elvish unlike the design in Reforged.

Oh true. But I think they were designed like that because they are being used in that bonus map, where Garithos sends fanatics to portal. So those Blood Elf engineers salvaged various towers. One of those were that boulder tower. It was not created to be massive created like those used in campaign against Undead, those were salvaged and recreated. And rather reused for Draenei. Althoug they look the most similar from all towers t oDraenei because they are completely made of wood just like their mushroom structures. Other one I can remember is Orc Watch Tower. Death Tower is for demons obviously.

Catapults were first seen on both humans and orcs in the first game, then only on orcs. Besides, draenei are neither humans, nor orcs and it would be nice to have an original concept fitting their race.
It's not explained if the orcs copied the concept from the humans or had one of their own before they came.

Yeah, but Orcs were using catapults in Draenor. So, its more logical Draenei to use them in Outland as leftover design rather than use Demolishers for some reason, regardless that they are introduced in Frozen Throne. But with other hand, there are no regular Orc campaign there. Fel Orcs were using demolishers as well. Only logical explanations is that they had those blueprints from Draneor for both catapult and demolishers, and for some reason they decided to use catapults first.

Poor orcs following Blackhand (Gul'dan) through the Twisting Nether (well, actually, they kinda new where they were going; the rift was opened to Azeroth).
Poor orcs following Ner'zhul through the Twisting Nether.
Poor humans following Khadgar through the Twisting Nether.

And poor orcs following Guldan in Broken Isles

Infinite reincarnations, eh?

Ah, so you know that character
Destroyer Zardikar
haha not because of that. Honestly I forgot about reincarnations. This is because of WOW gameplay. Even twisted Wc logic is ,this is insane. You exit arena, and get back again, still same heroes await you! Over and over. This sucks.
But I meant that he lives normally as any hero. Still he is gladiator, designed to battle and crush any hero. So, multiple heroes must approach him. That is why almost any of those custom icon ranks can't match mine (except Archimonde and few perhaps). They abuse system, I will too.

I don't think Maiev was even thinking of getting back. The warden was too blinded by vengeance and bondage fetish on Illidan, lol.

BONDAGE FETISH And who is naughty now?
Malfurion said that she is bond forever to hunt, she became vengeance herself.

 

[deepstrasz]

haha regardless that they are Undead thus they do not need sun and that there is rarely sun in Northrend

Well, yeah but Arthas is not reanimated. The character's body is still living so maybe seeing in the dark isn't quite something the character can do

Death Tower is for demons obviously.

Well, the design looks elven.

One of those were that boulder tower. It was not created to be massive created like those used in campaign against Undead, those were salvaged and recreated.

I think the Boulder Tower looks more stony and bulky, thus not at all going with the scrawny, woody and mushroom vibe of the TfT draenei.

Fel Orcs were using demolishers as well. Only logical explanations is that they had those blueprints from Draneor for both catapult and demolishers, and for some reason they decided to use catapults first.

I think Demolishers came afterwards as an upgrade. In the campaign we see them in Outland. I still have to see if there are any in the Bonus Campaign. If there are, it's an inconsistency.

And poor orcs following Guldan in Broken Isles

Ah yes, I had a feeling I was missing something.
Also, poor humans following Lothar in the Dead Mines to search for the Tome of Divinity

You exit arena, and get back again, still same heroes await you! Over and over. This sucks.

I don't remember if there's any Twisting Nether brings them back explanation but it's gameplay anyway

And who is naughty now?

Maiev, lol.

Malfurion said that she is bond

Let me just stop your right there

 

[MasterHaosis]

Well, the design looks elven.

Maybe, but from various parts. Dark parts are enough to fit Outland (at least more than other towers)

I think the Boulder Tower looks more stony and bulky, thus not at all going with the scrawny, woody and mushroom vibe of the TfT draenei.

Yes, but I was meant that this one fits better than other towers as there is no other specifically designed for Draenei.

I think Demolishers came afterwards as an upgrade. In the campaign we see them in Outland. I still have to see if there are any in the Bonus Campaign. If there are, it's an inconsistency.

Yeah!
You know another inconsistency I discovered. You want it?

Ah yes, I had a feeling I was missing something.

And poor humans following Arthas in Northrend

Also, poor humans following Lothar in the Dead Mines to search for the Tome of Divinity

Whats was it? I cant remember that

I don't remember if there's any Twisting Nether brings them back explanation but it's gameplay anyway

No gameplay. it is WOW gamepley. that is something different. Unholy!

Maiev, lol.

Let me just stop your right there

So, Maiev is guilty for your claims to be some kind of fetish

 

[Triceron]

I kinda wish they went out of their way to add the Aspects in. There's no need to, but it'd be great to see them modelled in full as they should look in the style of Reforged.

But then again, that leaves more for modders to take up the challenge of moving forward.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Thank you for voting (for Black Dragon) and posting opinion Triceron! + rep

 

[deepstrasz]

You know another inconsistency I discovered. You want it?

Why are you doing this? You should have written it already :\

And poor humans following Arthas in Northrend

Ah, yeah and Muradin!

Whats was it? I cant remember that

Warcraft: Orcs & Humans. It's a dungeon map.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Why are you doing this? You should have written it already :\

haha, I needed to check if you are still interested (although I see that you like my discoverings)
This is inconsistency

,,Now I am last of my kind" - yeah right. Just in next map Tomb of Sargeras there are many of those necrolutes. In map after that with runner there are not, but in map after it there are camp with few of them. So, obviosly (plus in skirmish maps) there are Necrolutes. What can be true in his statements that he is last SANE remained (with his own will) only because other necrolutes were seen alongside with skeletal Orcs and Reef elementals. They were obviosly mad and all that.

Ah, yeah and Muradin!

haha. I wonder why the hell Muradel lead dwarves there. They had no chance, that is why they had to fortify near beach, They could not get far. perhaps they did not know about undeads.

Warcraft: Orcs & Humans. It's a dungeon map.

Oh that was long ago, I forgot about it.

 

[deepstrasz]

,,Now I am last of my kind" - yeah right.

I know. I've mentioned it a lot of times here:
Reforged - Inconsistencies in Classic WC3 that you want to see fixed in Reforged?
There are lots even in the Bonus Campaign, even on the Broken Isles.
They should have been replaced with or renamed to Warsong Warlocks. There are some Warlocks too though.

haha. I wonder why the hell Muradel lead dwarves there. They had no chance, that is why they had to fortify near beach, They could not get far. perhaps they did not know about undeads.

No, they didn't know about the undead at least not exactly what was happening. Muradin said the undead numbers were growing as they came closer to Frostmourne. They were treasure hunting. But even with that, Muradin didn't even want to try to sell the sword after reading that it was cursed.

 

[MasterHaosis]

I know. I've mentioned it a lot of times here:
Reforged - Inconsistencies in Classic WC3 that you want to see fixed in Reforged?
There are lots even in the Bonus Campaign, even on the Broken Isles.
They should have been replaced with or renamed to Warsong Warlocks. There are some Warlocks too though.

Oh man you won them there! +rep! That commitment! You found tons of stuff. I agree with vast majority written there.

No, they didn't know about the undead at least not exactly what was happening. Muradin said the undead numbers were growing as they came closer to Frostmourne. They were treasure hunting. But even with that, Muradin didn't even want to try to sell the sword after reading that it was cursed.

They are just bad lucky or stupid. One does not go like that in very cold continent like that. They even started hallucinating (as normal in such situations) that Arthas and humans are Undead. Because, obviosly, place is swarm by Undeads. But weird that they fortified there, and figthing off Undeads as they can, but those various ice creatures blocked their path back to coast meanwhile (remember that with Arthas and his people you had to clean those neutral beasts before you get to Dwarves). So, they were trapped. And separated from other dwarves.

 

[deepstrasz]

They even started hallucinating (as normal in such situations) that Arthas and humans are Undead.

Wasn't it because of the weather, fog?

But weird that they fortified there, and figthing off Undeads as they can, but those various ice creatures blocked their path back to coast meanwhile (remember that with Arthas and his people you had to clean those neutral beasts before you get to Dwarves). So, they were trapped. And separated from other dwarves.

Well, it might have been safer behind the barricades but they could not have lasted too long without provisions and stuff so ultimately they should have risked getting through the beasts.

 

[MasterHaosis]

Wasn't it because of the weather, fog?

I just checked. They were not far away, in fact Arthas and those Peasants were close (they would not get hit from storm bolt otherwice), weather there did not snow, but I got what you mean, it is generally rough weather there. But Muradim said that they were attacked by Undead and separated (that is why you have to rescue that another base), so they expect Undead always. That and what you said about weather there combined factor made them seeing everyone as Undead at first sight. That is not good place to get lost

Well, it might have been safer behind the barricades but they could not have lasted too long without provisions and stuff so ultimately they should have risked getting through the beasts.

Yeah, I think so. They are lucky to have gold mine near and some wood to keep them longer alive. But I would also take chance getting though monsters rather than being attacked by Undead all time. That gold mine is somewhat near shore. Just luck factor of decent good terrain, wood and gold nearby and they fire rifles from bunkers which made them last that long. And fact that malGanis did not have mission to hunt them, rather to go there in Lordean to makke Arthas coming to Northrend. If he did not have what to do.... I think nobody would see Muradin anymore.

 

[deepstrasz]

Yeah, I think so. They are lucky to have gold mine near and some wood to keep them longer alive.

Gold mine ? What are they going to do with gold, eat it, bribe the undead ?

And fact that malGanis did not have mission to hunt them, rather to go there in Lordean to makke Arthas coming to Northrend. If he did not have what to do.... I think nobody would see Muradin anymore.

I don't think it's quite that simple. I mean Northrend is not a neighbourhood, it's a continent. You can't monitor everything. The Lich King hasn't even finished off all nerubians. Plus, dwarves are tricky, they go everywhere, especially through tunnels and underground parts. If it were that simple to kill everyone and turn them into undead, the demons wouldn't have come less, and acted more stealthily while the undead would've done the fighting.

---

Also, even though Maiev doesn't directly quarrel with Tyrande about Illidan, the hero has a quote about it saying: "Tyrande will pay for setting Illidan free!"

Actually, Maiev confronts Tyrande about it in chapter V

Spoiler

Maiev: Priestess Tyrande, I'm surprised you came in person. Are you here to absolve your guilty conscience?

Tyrande: I did what I had to do, Maiev. You are in no position to judge me.

Maiev: What you did was murder my Watchers and set the Betrayer free! It is you who should be locked in a cage.

EDIT: @MasterHaosis
Check out this quote:

Spoiler

Maiev: Illidan has grown powerful: of that, there is no doubt. He consumed the energies of the Skull of Gul'dan. Now he is neither night elf nor demon, but something more.

But then

Spoiler

Maiev: Ishnu-dal-dieb, Kael'thas. I am Maiev Shadowsong, and this is Tyrande Whisperwind. We are hunting a powerful demon that arrived here recently.

And everyone after that calls Illidan demon

 

[MasterHaosis]

Gold mine ? What are they going to do with gold, eat it, bribe the undead ?

Same as you do. You still need it to build stuff.... You know, golden stuff hahaha

I don't think it's quite that simple. I mean Northrend is not a neighbourhood, it's a continent. You can't monitor everything. The Lich King hasn't even finished off all nerubians. Plus, dwarves are tricky, they go everywhere, especially through tunnels and underground parts. If it were that simple to kill everyone and turn them into undead, the demons wouldn't have come less, and acted more stealthily while the undead would've done the fighting.

Yes, but i ncase of dwarves it is simple as they already got separated and under attack constantly of Undeads. So, they could focus more and finish them. Those dwarves are not in their territories to be tricky. We seen their tricks very well there. Both times they depended on Arthas. First time he needed to save them, second time he destroyed them in frozen throne.
Note that Dwarves survived after Muradin only because they are small to fit and live somehow in that underground. Even there they got scared to death. Same as Nerubians. Undeads did not finish them off, but vast majority of those survived are underground or near entrance of underground. You know that they burrow as well.
And yes, yo uare right that Northrend is big as continent, but still vast majority of Undead controlled. For reason. Lich King is there. Undeads are there, and there is no real treat. Similar as Demons into Outland. Illidan needed to get there with most powerful units he could (he also bring few Royal Guards with him) both races to break though icecrown Citadel. And yet again it is questionable if they could get near if he did not break and melt some of it's ice in Dalaran before his brother interrupted.

And everyone after that calls Illidan demon

Yeah! But he was called demon since first time he transformed

 

[MasterHaosis]

@deepstrasz Oh also Revenantsa of Seas, Tides, Depths and Deeplord Revnants are weird. It is not element either.

Also, new discoverings from campaign

You see, Jaina told it was trap.
Medivh has seen future and know that Arthas will find death there
Mal Ganis also told that ,Dark Lord" told he will do it (Lich King also foresigned many things), so this all with dwarves are just trap. All parade for Arthas. Someone must be left alive to inform him about Frostmourne. That is why Dwarves are alive, Undeads are keeping them from distance, attacking them but to be long life enough to inform him about sword.

 

[deepstrasz]

Oh also Revenantsa of Seas, Tides, Depths and Deeplord Revnants are weird. It is not element either.

That's why I think Death in Death Revenants doesn't mean they use death as an element. Since we see them as higher tier units than the Fire and Lightning Revenants, they might be using one of or both these elements or earth, since they are usually found in the underground tielesets.
I'm pretty sure the ones of the Sunken Ruins tileset use the water element.

Medivh has seen future and know that Arthas will find death there

I know, lol, that's why Medivh warned everybody but as he says in The Warning short film "You have chosen your fate" (or something like that) means that destiny could have been changed otherwise there was no need to warn anybody if Medivh knew the exact events and that they were unchangeable.

Mal Ganis also told that ,Dark Lord" told he will do it (Lich King also foresigned many things), so this all with dwarves are just trap. All parade for Arthas. Someone must be left alive to inform him about Frostmourne. That is why Dwarves are alive, Undeads are keeping them from distance, attacking them but to be long life enough to inform him about sword.

Ner'zhul was a shaman. Of course the character was supposed to have some Far Sight. But the dwarves being left alive is speculation because Mal'Ganis brought Arthas to Northrend and Kel'Thuzad was called via telepathy. Arthas was stubborn and needed a bit of "taming" before Ner'zhul could corrupt the character. Frostmourne would have been found a way or another. Mal'Ganis could have told the paladin about it somehow because the dreadlord knew about it.

 

[MasterHaosis]

That's why I think Death in Death Revenants doesn't mean they use death as an element. Since we see them as higher tier units than the Fire and Lightning Revenants, they might be using one of or both these elements or earth, since they are usually found in the underground tielesets.
I'm pretty sure the ones of the Sunken Ruins tileset use the water element.

I think that too. I believe those sea elementals use water based magics. Only, their ,,natural" habbit is Sunken Ruins, thus they are green as jungle, and decorated with shells and such (we will see those in Reforged). Oh by the way, that Death revenant can use death as element since Undead has little different logic behind them. Corrupted elementals could technically use death as element (because as they died, their Undead minions die too within them in missions. Death Revenant in that Night Elf mission and that Frost Elemental guarding Froustmoore).
Correct me if I am wrong but in Wc3 elements are fire, water, earth and air right? Then, lightning where does it stand? Ice/Frost is water based I suppose. We do not have air elemental or wind.

I know, lol, that's why Medivh warned everybody but as he says in The Warning short film "You have chosen your fate" (or something like that) means that destiny could have been changed otherwise there was no need to warn anybody if Medivh knew the exact events and that they were unchangeable.

of course they can change destiny, but only as he suggest them. Not that they do anything. They should go to Kalimdor because it was only their chance. So he did not say ,,chose your destiny" in meaning that you have many option on table. Only one where you can win. Any other you lose. He did not convince anyone to do whatever he wishes else, just to go there. he told Athas to sail to Kalimdor, he said to Thrall, JaINA, Furion and Tyrande, and perhaps King Therenas as far I remember. Chosing any option in Arthas case in Northrend means death. Technically medivh was right, Arthas is not alive either. Undead. its even worse than being dead.

Ner'zhul was a shaman. Of course the character was supposed to have some Far Sight. But the dwarves being left alive is speculation because Mal'Ganis brought Arthas to Northrend and Kel'Thuzad was called via telepathy. Arthas was stubborn and needed a bit of "taming" before Ner'zhul could corrupt the character. Frostmourne would have been found a way or another. Mal'Ganis could have told the paladin about it somehow because the dreadlord knew about it.

But you missed one thing! Muradin, he needed to be sacrificed too as Arthas's friend. Close friend actually. And in game he is hero. Eliminating him meaning eliminating Dwarves as well as they have no active leader. But saving him for Arthas to sacrifice only. He needed in that case to bring Arthas to Froustmoore. Sure, I think any other way Arthas would find that sword. Like you said, Dreadlord could inform him. But in this way we seen, I think it is friend betrayal at accent.