Reforged Campaign - Patch Changes?

[JCarrill0]

Am I the only who noticed some changes in the campaigns recently?

I specifically remember Blizzard had a "Difficulty" trigger in Prologue1 where Thrall would have stronger gnolls in Normal and Hard Difficulty, but when I went to play it, nothing changed, and I cant find the trigger on the map, nor in a previous 1.36 version. I'm not crazy... when did they make these changes?

 

[_lycan]

Yes Kam added those but they got reverted before this patch, because there were bugs with the campaign changes

 

[JCarrill0]

Yes Kam added those but they got reverted before this patch, because there were bugs with the campaign changes

I liked kams idea.. it was awesome! I wonder how i will get the old maps for that back...

1.33 Campaign Preservation Project

Lok'tar Campaigners! After nearly five years you have access to the Blizzard campaign gameplay as it was originally planned, and as you briefly experienced from patch 1.33 to 1.36.1. This was the collective effort of a small internal design team consisting of myself with testing and input from...

www.hiveworkshop.com

 

[Ravager16829]

I liked kams idea.. it was awesome! I wonder how i will get the old maps for that back...

1.33 Campaign Preservation Project

Lok'tar Campaigners! After nearly five years you have access to the Blizzard campaign gameplay as it was originally planned, and as you briefly experienced from patch 1.33 to 1.36.1. This was the collective effort of a small internal design team consisting of myself with testing and input from...

www.hiveworkshop.com

I don't think those old campaign maps with Kam's changes will be reverted.

And to make things even worse, Reforged 2.0. has a compatibility issues with older maps due to the massive revamps with this game, specifically the presence of better legacy graphics (some custom model portraits can't be loaded).

Yet another example of how Reforged 2.0. is actually a step backwards to the old versions.

 

[JCarrill0]

I thought they were already reverted in 1.36? @Kam

anyways I wanted to play the campaign with these old maps...

is it worth playing the reforged campaign now even with the 2.0 changes?

 

[Kam]

I was hoping they would add the balance pass back into this update but that seems unlikely.

The current campaign status is essentially what it was at 1.32 with a few more bugs resulting from the 1.36 revert. What was added in 1.33 and removed in 1.36 is partially documented here: 1.33 Campaign Balance Update

Life has been busy this year but at some point I will upload 1.33 as a custom campaign. If anyone wants to assist or take on the cause please let me know.

 

[JCarrill0]

I was hoping they would add the balance pass back into this update but that seems unlikely.

The current campaign status is essentially what it was at 1.32 with a few more bugs resulting from the 1.36 revert. What was added in 1.33 and removed in 1.36 is partially documented here: 1.33 Campaign Balance Update

Life has been busy this year but at some point I will upload 1.33 as a custom campaign. If anyone wants to assist or take on the cause please let me know.

put me on that list to play it @Kam and thank you for all your hard work you originally put into the reforged campaigns to make them fun and interesting again. I am truly sorry to see they got reverted and was really quiet about it as well knowing it would cause an uproar in the community, but hey it was all in the same of "Stability" right?

 

[Ravager16829]

I thought they were already reverted in 1.36? @Kam

anyways I wanted to play the campaign with these old maps...

is it worth playing the reforged campaign now even with the 2.0 changes?

Apparently not. Kam said that they broke almost all 1.33 campaign balance changes with 1.36.
Also, it is possible to play Reforged-exclusive campaign maps with upscaled legacy graphics (Classic HD) on 2.0.
Yesterday, I checked Discord posts of HIVE Workshop. Someone played an Undead campaign (of course, the revampped Silvermoon and Dalaran maps) with Classic HD mode and it's fully working as intended.
Do note that Classic HD still has an unexpected FPS drops, as it's still considered as "Reforged" graphics.

 

[Blazethesage]

One thing I'm noticing, actually... I thought it was patch 1.33 that renamed the enemy Archmages in the final undead Mission, "Under the Burning Sky", to defend Kel'thuzad. However, playing the game today, I notice those names are still in place. (Sidenote: Only two of the names on the list of archmage names in this mission evaded my attempts to identify their source back when 1.33 first came out - Ericon and Pascal Spellbinder, the latter of whom I guess is related to the generic Archmage Peril Spellbinder )

Am I wrong about when the names in this particular mission was changed, or did these names manage to slip through the reversion? Makes me wonder...

 

[Ravager16829]

One thing I'm noticing, actually... I thought it was patch 1.33 that renamed the enemy Archmages in the final undead Mission, "Under the Burning Sky", to defend Kel'thuzad. However, playing the game today, I notice those names are still in place. (Sidenote: Only two of the names on the list of archmage names in this mission evaded my attempts to identify their source back when 1.33 first came out - Ericon and Pascal Spellbinder, the latter of whom I guess is related to the generic Archmage Peril Spellbinder )

Am I wrong about when the names in this particular mission was changed, or did these names manage to slip through the reversion? Makes me wonder...

Warcraft III/Patch 1.33.0

Warcraft III patch 1.33.0 is the first major patch since 1.32.0. It released on 18 August 2022. The patch was deployed on the Public Test Realm on 14 June 2022.

wowpedia.fandom.com

If you scroll down, you'll see a section named "Undocumented Changes", which explained a full detail about campaign revamp on 1.33.
Aside from the balance changes that Kam mentioned, here are notable changes you might noticed on 1.33, including the said random heroes:

Keep in mind that those 1.33 changes only applied if you've played the campaign on Reforged graphics (Classic HD addon is still applicable).
What it does mean is that certain mission walkthroughs have been altered when playing on Reforged graphics, like you can build Chimeras during "Twilight of the Gods" mission, or you can only use the Pandaren Brewmaster as a bonus hero in "The Search for Illidan" mission if you've finished "The Crossing" on Hard Mode.

 

[Blazethesage]

Warcraft III/Patch 1.33.0

Warcraft III patch 1.33.0 is the first major patch since 1.32.0. It released on 18 August 2022. The patch was deployed on the Public Test Realm on 14 June 2022.

wowpedia.fandom.com

If you scroll down, you'll see a section named "Undocumented Changes", which explained a full detail about campaign revamp on 1.33.
Aside from the balance changes that Kam mentioned, here are notable changes you might noticed on 1.33, including the said random heroes:
View attachment 499343

Keep in mind that those 1.33 changes only applied if you've played the campaign on Reforged graphics (Classic HD addon is still applicable).
What it does mean is that certain mission walkthroughs have been altered when playing on Reforged graphics, like you can build Chimeras during "Twilight of the Gods" mission, or you can only use the Pandaren Brewmaster as a bonus hero in "The Search for Illidan" mission if you've finished "The Crossing" on Hard Mode.

That's the whole point though, the changes you're referencing were supposed to have been completely undone and reverted with the 1.36 patch. But these names are still here in Under the Burning Sky. Most other changes from 1.33 have not been present, but this one has. I'll need to keep going through the campaign and see what else might have slipped through...

Checking the missions I have access to quickly, (I recently got a new computer, so previous campaign progress was erased), it appears Hero names in general may have actually survived the 1.36 purge, either that or they were re-applied. The Archmage hero in "Riders on the Storm" in the Orc Prologue is Sanath Tidebringer, which is definitely his 1.33 name.

 

[Ravager16829]

Checking the missions I have access to quickly, (I recently got a new computer, so previous campaign progress was erased), it appears Hero names in general may have actually survived the 1.36 purge, either that or they were re-applied. The Archmage hero in "Riders on the Storm" in the Orc Prologue is Sanath Tidebringer, which is definitely his 1.33 name.

I think those 1.33 Hero names were still present in other missions with 1.36/2.0. patches.
Not only Sanath Tidebringer that really exists, but other Archmages you encountered during the Reign of Chaos campaigns in Reforged will still retain their 1.33 names. This includes a High Elf versions of the Archmages during "Fall of Silvermoon".
However, there is a really bad bug here. Due to the changes related to the random heroes in 1.33, sometimes their names can be messed up in-game during the gameplay:

When I was playing the Fall of Silvermoon (on December 2nd, 2023) the Archmage that was attacking me did not have a name.

When I got attacked his name was "ll" (2 in roman numbers).

Also, the 2nd problem happened if you played melee maps with Orc AI. The Blademaster's random hero names can sometimes be messed up by having a roman numbers in it ("II" or "III"). That was an old issue even way back before the release of Reforged and still persists here.

 

[Blazethesage]

There's a reason for the Roman Numerals, actually. In short, it means the system ran out of names on the randomized list, and had to re-use one. That's when it sticks a Roman Numeral II on the end. Because they're the second hero using that name. I saw one of the heroes in Fall of Silvermoon with a II at the end of their name, too.

However, it appears that not ALL maps kept the 1.33 names. "Where Wind Riders Dare" (or "Where Wyverns Dare" to use the better, old name) appears to have reverted to simply using random hero names for the Archmage and Mountain King; though "Cry of the Warsong" does retain the 1.33 names, with various names taken from NPCs in Kalimdor associated with Theramore, or perhaps formerly so (Archmage Xylem; his name being used on THIS list is the only hint we have about him prior to his questline in Classic).

 

[Ravager16829]

There's a reason for the Roman Numerals, actually. In short, it means the system ran out of names on the randomized list, and had to re-use one. That's when it sticks a Roman Numeral II on the end. Because they're the second hero using that name. I saw one of the heroes in Fall of Silvermoon with a II at the end of their name, too.

It should also be noted that the problem usually happened if you're playing on melee games with more players (12/24P), provided that you are playing as the same race as AI (or if there's more AI players with the same race).
However, even if you have 2-4 AI players with the same race during melee game, the "Roman Numeral" bug on hero name is still persists. That was only happened so far for Orc, notably the Blademaster.

 

[Blazethesage]

So, interesting discovery, another change that I believe is from 1.33 that appears to have either survived the Purge, or been re-applied in 2.0.

In the Frozen Throne undead campaign, Mission 3, The Dark Lady. A special, stronger Banshee named Sharlindra is present; she was not present in the original Reforged, but as far as I can tell, was added in 1.33, and is still present today!

https://imgur.com/mkdZlpZ

 

[Ravager16829]

In the Frozen Throne undead campaign, Mission 3, The Dark Lady. A special, stronger Banshee named Sharlindra is present; she was not present in the original Reforged, but as far as I can tell, was added in 1.33, and is still present today!

That's not only the case. I believe that in a missions where you have a stronger version of unit with its unique name (only possible when playing on Reforged graphics), those old changes from 1.33 were still left intact in 2.0. Notable examples were:
1.Falric, Marwyn, and Luc Valonforth being playable on the last chapter of "The Scourge of Lordaeron" campaign.
I believe that those Human Captains are also playable on the other 3 chapters of that campaign (Human03, Human07, Human08).
2.On Act 2 of "The Founding of Durotar" campaign, there's a wounded Stonemaul Ogre named Crol'ka that talks to Rexxar for the main quest, which is to find Kor'gall. Also, four Stonemaul Ogres accompanying Kor'gall will have their unique names from WoW (Ogg'marr, Tharg, Do'gol, Draz'Zlib).

EDIT: It appears that Luc Valonforth remained with 2.0. patch during the last chapter of Human campaign.
I also noticed that in "Twilight of the Gods", there are 2 notable changes that I believe was purged by the time 1.36/2.0 came out (not mentioning the ability to build the Chimeras):
1.In Jaina's base, there's a unique Human Captain unit named "Halford Wyrmbane".
2.In Thrall's base, Naz'grel and Gar'thok, two Orcish warriors you normally encountered during Act 1 of "The Founding of Durotar" campaign, can be seen aiding Thrall.

I can't provide a full detail about notable changes since I haven't played Reforged campaigns just yet, as did the original ROC/TFT ones in ages.

 

[Blazethesage]

Weirdly enough, when I played that final Scourge of Lordaeron mission, only one of the three Captains appeared, and it was Luc Valonforth. I do remember the other two showing up there in 1.33, though it appears all three being present was part of the cuts.

Can't speak for the Rexxar campaign though, I haven't touched that one in ages.

EDIT: Can confirm that all the 1.33 changes to "Twilight of the Gods" were purged; none of them currently remain. One of the other changes to that level involved both Jaina and Thrall's bases rebuilding more than just the four units that run around with their Hero, which was nice. It's gone too.

 

[Ravager16829]

Can't speak for the Rexxar campaign though, I haven't touched that one in ages.

Well, I didn't played vanilla campaigns for long time, both Reign of Chaos and Frozen Throne.
Hopefully, in the future, I'll do some gameplays for the Reforged versions.

 

[Ravager16829]

Turns out that vanilla ROC/TFT campaign with the 1.33 balance changes was updated right now, as confirmed in this thread:

1.33 Campaign Preservation Project

Lok'tar Campaigners! After nearly five years you have access to the Blizzard campaign as it was originally meant to be, and as you briefly experienced from patch 1.33 to 1.36.1. This was the collective effort of a small internal design team lead by myself with testing and input from a SC2...

www.hiveworkshop.com

Also, if you look at the Map Section in this site, you can find a download link for all 9 vanilla campaigns with Kam's balance changes.

Do note that you'll always need the latest patch (currently 2.0.1) to play those campaigns, and that your game must be using the original Reforged graphics (Classic or Classic+Reforged graphics mix are NOT recommended).

 

[JCarrill0]

I have not been able to find them, but I would LOVE to have these maps! thank you for showing me!