Phonebloks. Amazing...

[Radicool]

So there's this interesting video pushing the idea of "phonebloks". A phone which is designed to last. It had already started development within the Motorolla company. Everyone should be looking into it in my opinion. Lets hope this can work and become a reality!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDAw7vW7H0c

Take a look and comment.

 

[gorillabull]

how is this supposed to reduce electronic waste ? if a part gets damaged you have to throw it away ... also i dont see normal people who dont know much about electornics making much use of this this might feel intimidated or something. i think this is just going to be another high end product that only people who make technology a part of their daily lives will use

 

[Dawn]

how is this supposed to reduce electronic waste ? if a part gets damaged you have to throw it away ...

You don't have to throw everything. You only have to throw the damage parts unlike the phones these days that even though everything else should still work fine but once a small part of it dies, everything won't work anymore so people throw away everything.

also i dont see normal people who dont know much about electornics making much use of this this might feel intimidated or something.

Unscrewing 2 screws, Replacing the part then screwing the screws back seems pretty simple. It's not like you have to solder or do something complicated.



The idea is great but I really don't believe there's going to be a "centralized company" where all of the tops producers would work together.

 

[Radicool]

how is this supposed to reduce electronic waste ? if a part gets damaged you have to throw it away ...

That's kind of a retarded statement. Very stupid actually. How about you think about it and let me hear your thoughts then.

also i dont see normal people who dont know much about electornics making much use of this this might feel intimidated or something.

Well, it's actually extremely simple. Agreed, there's plenty of people who have no idea, but there will be somebody at the phone shop to help diagnose the faulty part. Why would you buy a new phone anyway? It's in your best interest to fix your phone than buy a new one.

i think this is just going to be another high end product

I don't see why this is "high end". It couldn't be anymore expensive that $700-900 iphones that seemingly everyone is happy to waste their money on.

that only people who make technology a part of their daily lives will use

Why would only technologically people use it? The new phone is going to last longer than any phones available making it cheaper. Problems are extremely simple to diagnose and fix and such fixes will cost only a fraction of the cost of a new phone.

 

[Radicool]

The idea is great but I really don't believe there's going to be a "centralized company" where all of the tops producers would work together.

Neither do I. The answer however is just in plain sight and is already happening. Companies will make processors, bluetooth, memory, batteries, etc for the phone. Just like computers; there are various brands (which are from different companies) of computer components to build a computer. This is how all producers can work together. This also provides competition to keep prices down.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I don't see why this is "high end". It couldn't be anymore expensive that $700-900 iphones that seemingly everyone is happy to waste their money on.

For the same performance it will likely be more expensive. It does not have the advantage of integration and mass production keeping costs down. Yes each type of component can be mass produced but in such large quantities or as cheaply is the question since all that modularity comes with hardware and performance overhead.

Why would only technologically people use it? The new phone is going to last longer than any phones available making it cheaper. Problems are extremely simple to diagnose and fix and such fixes will cost only a fraction of the cost of a new phone.

Easy does not mean idiot proof. Users will still need professional help diagnosing the simplest of problems because they just will not try. Yes it will last longer but it will also cost more since you are paying for the modularity as opposed to highly integrated, mass producible and optimized circuits. Also do people want a phone that lasts that long since as it is most people go through a phone a year in some areas.

Companies will make processors, bluetooth, memory, batteries, etc for the phone. Just like computers; there are various brands (which are from different companies) of computer components to build a computer. This is how all producers can work together. This also provides competition to keep prices down.

And also raises the prices since they will need to bundle extra hardware to support the modularity overhead and each module variant represents a different production run and needs different masks.

The main problem is the lack of integration in fact. You can get a very good phone core by using an Nvidia Tegra which is a Nvidia GPU and ARM processor on the same die quite cheaply. If you separate these into separate graphics and processor components then you incure additional costs that are associated with 2 dies and also reduced performance due to less localized communication. Sure you could just make a Tegra a single module but that goes against the modularity approach since then you need to upgrade both CPU and GPU at the same time.

Although it sounds like a good idea, I just fail to see it really taking off. Few manufacturers will bother making parts for it and the demand will be so low that costs will remain high.

 

[Radicool]

For the same performance it will likely be more expensive. It does not have the advantage of integration and mass production keeping costs down. Yes each type of component can be mass produced but in such large quantities or as cheaply is the question since all that modularity comes with hardware and performance overhead.

I suppose. But computer parts aren't all that expensive.
Base Circuitry Board: $30 maybe?
Processor: $40-$120 a processor (comeon! The average person isn't a hardcore gamer other than angry birds)
Battery: $50-$120
SD Card: $20
Screen: $60-$300
Keypad Buttons: $0-$25-$40 (For those without touchscreen phones)
Bluetooth/Proximity/Other: $10-$50 (all up)
Phone Case: $2-$80
Total Cost: $212-$750

These seem like realistic prices. Remember most people aren't buying top of the range stuff because its simply not needed and some people don't even need all those components in a phone. The $750 is rarely going to be reached. Some components could be bundled such as Bluetooth with geometry and proximity sensor making it cheaper.

Also do people want a phone that lasts that long since as it is most people go through a phone a year in some areas.

Why wouldn't they want a phone that lasts forever? Save so much money and you reduce technological waste, helping the environment. If you are over the look of your phone you could buy a new phone case. With a phone like this, there would be a great variety of phone cases just as there are with Iphones given there was demand for this phone which I think is entirely possible.

Easy does not mean idiot proof. Users will still need professional help diagnosing the simplest of problems because they just will not try.

Just as you go to a shop and the man helps you buy a new phone. The man will instead help you fix your phone.

Just like if you buy a new car tyre. The man at the shop is going to charge for the tyre and equip the new tyre on your car free of charge because replacing a tyre is so god damn easy and quick its not funny. Same with phones. Buy a new replacement part, the guy at the shop is more than willingly going to help you plug in the new hardware. Its so goddamn easy and quick.

Sure you could just make a Tegra a single module but that goes against the modularity approach since then you need to upgrade both CPU and GPU at the same time.

Perhaps. But I don't think most would care about discrete graphics and therefore the processor and graphics would be combined. For some things, its probably better to bundle them and save room on your circuitry board for larger parts or other parts in general. Combining Bluetooth with a proximity and geometry sensor sounds ideal because it would save room on the circuit board and probably save money than buying individual parts.

Most people wouldn't need a separate part for simple things like discrete graphics or sensors. It makes more sense to combine certain things. This doesn't mean there is no longer a "modularity approach". It just a more efficient way of building the phone.

 

[Dr Super Good]

These seem like realistic prices. Remember most people aren't buying top of the range stuff because its simply not needed and some people don't even need all those components in a phone. The $750 is rarely going to be reached. Some components could be bundled such as Bluetooth with geometry and proximity sensor making it cheaper.

Except they often get >50% returns on their used phones, especially if they are top range. Even IPhone 1 sell for a ton still and they are many generations obsolete.

Why wouldn't they want a phone that lasts forever? Save so much money and you reduce technological waste, helping the environment. If you are over the look of your phone you could buy a new phone case. With a phone like this, there would be a great variety of phone cases just as there are with Iphones given there was demand for this phone which I think is entirely possible.

Chances are they break it, lose it, have it stolen or it just no longer does all they want. Fact is many countries have averages where a person gets through 1 phone a year. Most are recycled to as they filter down into developing countries so waste is not really a problem.

Combining Bluetooth with a proximity and geometry sensor sounds ideal because it would save room on the circuit board and probably save money than buying individual parts.

Bluetooth is pretty much proprietary rubbish. I am not even sure why it is used so much as it is far from user friendly and reliable. It is also completely unrelated to any other sensor kinds.

It just a more efficient way of building the phone.

Define efficient? Performance wise it is not since the extra communication overhead will lower performance. Cost wise it is not as the extra modularity will add overhead. Upgradability it is since the extra modularity allows from more customization and allows upgrading. Assembly wise it is not as each component will need a complex assembly stage as opposed to a few stage phone assembly. Transport wise it is not as each component will probably be shipped separately in a discrete box as individual units due to the cost involved. Environmentally it will also probably not be as good as you may find more components get thrown away than phones do (either as a result of poorer design specification to cut costs or because individual components are worthless without the phone).

 

[Radicool]

Chances are they break it, lose it, have it stolen or it just no longer does all they want.

I think most people buy new phones because of breaking the screen, the old one being too slow or its just outdated in style or performance. This blok phone fixes all that and people will have no need to buy new phones.

Fact is many countries have averages where a person gets through 1 phone a year.

This statistic is completely irrelevant with the new phone idea that has been introduced.

Most are recycled to as they filter down into developing countries so waste is not really a problem.

I'd say a large portion of phones are thrown out into garbage as most have no value when broken or the owner can't be bothered cashing in a cheap phone for a few bucks.

Bluetooth is pretty much proprietary rubbish. I am not even sure why it is used so much as it is far from user friendly and reliable. It is also completely unrelated to any other sensor kinds.

I just don't like making a seperate paragraph for each component of a phone lol. I know Bluetooth isn't a sensor, however it is a small device in phones. Especially with technological developments making components smaller, manufactures could combine certain components of the phone into single "bloks" reducing the need to make as many seperate bloks. This cuts costs and wasted space on phones. If you look at the design of this phoneblok, the saved space could allow for a larger battery or something.

Define efficient?

Ok this is a subjective term.

Performance wise it is not since the extra communication overhead will lower performance.

I don't think this is a big deal to reap the benefits of the new phone. Phones are getting fast enough these days, a small performance issue isn't a problem.

Cost wise it is not as the extra modularity will add overhead.

Well buying new phones outright every year is more expensive than buying a new part every year. Think about it. Your saving tonnes.

Assembly wise it is not as each component will need a complex assembly stage as opposed to a few stage phone assembly.

In theory this phone is rather simple to upgrade. Replacing parts is very very easy.

Transport wise it is not as each component will probably be shipped separately in a discrete box as individual units due to the cost involved.

Shops will buy in bulk. Are you saying computers are a terrible way of doing things? Computers are made of individual parts which people buy and make use of. This new phone will be no different.

Environmentally it will also probably not be as good as you may find more components get thrown away than phones do

We still talking about this? This new phone will significantly reduce waste. PARTS are thrown. Not WHOLE phones.

 

[Adiktuz]

This statistic is completely irrelevant with the new phone idea that has been introduced.

Actually seeing as how companies nowadays go for "planned obsolence" of their own tech/product, nothing will change...

Companies will still make their old tech/parts obsolete after a year or so, because they want to convince people to buy their newer tech... So a year from the first launch, they will release "new parts" for those modular phones, and they will convince people to but those...

You see, people don't change phones every year because they were broken or something, people change phones every year because the tech companies make them think that they "NEED" to change phones due to newer tech being available... So making a phone that "lasts longer" won't really change it much...

 

[gorillabull]

yea most people just go for the newest phone on the market if this ever comes out people will buy it, then something else will come out and people will move on to buy that what im saying is people will eventually get bored of the concept of an interchangeable phone and will want something else im fairly certain most of the people who watched the video were just interested in seeing a new phone design because they are already bored of their iphone 5s or w/e and had absolutely no interest in reducing e-waste and again im not rly seeing 80% of the people who use phones to be interested in "upgrading" or "modifying" their phone as that is something only tech geeks do
also lets not forget that if people buy this they will have to throw away their old phones which will produce monstrous amounts of mountains of phones ^^

 

[Adiktuz]

yeah, that tech will probably live for maybe 3-5 years, then there will already be more advanced tech to use...

and yes, I don't think normal people will actually "upgrade", they will most probably just buy a new one...

 

[Dr Super Good]

I'd say a large portion of phones are thrown out into garbage as most have no value when broken or the owner can't be bothered cashing in a cheap phone for a few bucks.

Said phones are so cheap that there is no way the phone block idea could be cheaper. If you start looking at smart phones like the Iphone they are so valuable that only if the device is broken do they get thrown away.

Especially with technological developments making components smaller, manufactures could combine certain components of the phone into single "bloks" reducing the need to make as many seperate bloks. This cuts costs and wasted space on phones. If you look at the design of this phoneblok, the saved space could allow for a larger battery or something.

Bluetooth chips have very strict placement requirements due to the low power antenna used. Sensors cannot be physically near each other due to interference, especially not next to RF components.

I don't think this is a big deal to reap the benefits of the new phone. Phones are getting fast enough these days, a small performance issue isn't a problem.

It does however raise the cost for unit performance.

Well buying new phones outright every year is more expensive than buying a new part every year. Think about it. Your saving tonnes.

Not if you buy every part new which is one of the main drives behind people getting new phones. Since they are only designed to last a few years they will also be considerably cheaper than something designed to last 20 years which will require military grade components and additional die area.

In theory this phone is rather simple to upgrade. Replacing parts is very very easy.

What does that have to do with part assembly? Each different module will need a different assembly process as it has different interior workings and possibly different exterior components. Sure it is not as complex as assembling a phone but it will need to be done for each module that is part of the phone.

Shops will buy in bulk. Are you saying computers are a terrible way of doing things? Computers are made of individual parts which people buy and make use of. This new phone will be no different.

Shops cannot buy them in bulk as they are expensive items. They will also have a lot more stock standing around since they will need to offer more choice. Your argument about computers is also flawed as the entire drive behind Steam Machines and game consoles is they can offer you considerably better performance for the same cost compared with computers. This is why AMD went looking into entire integrated solutions, where GPU, CPU and memory are all on the same circuit board (and often on the same die in the case of the CPU and GPU) to give you far better performance for the cost.

This new phone will significantly reduce waste. PARTS are thrown. Not WHOLE phones.

Except so many parts will be thrown away that is might as well be whole phones.

It might be a good time to raise other fundamental problems with the technology.
Security? What is to stop people from disassembling the phone and using hack blocks to access personal information? What if some blocks are tampered at manufacture or sold on the internet which contain hidden key loggers? How will the platform support hardware security features that are required for highly sensitive information such as banking?

Theft. Currently it is difficult to brand stolen phones as new due to noticeable wear they will have. However with blocks you could easily sell the non-surface components (hidden behind the case) off as brand new. Since these will be expensive (CPU, GPU, etc) that makes them far more attractive for a thief and the parts are harder to trace as well.

Safety? Seeing how much power is stored in a phone battery, I would at least like the comfort to know that the entire system is of a safe quality. Not that a cheap Bluetooth adapter could cause a short circuit, overheat the battery and take my hand off. Yes most modules will be safe, but not all and especially cheap ones. As the system is designed for processors and other high power components there is no real way to restrict the current to specific components so you could literally get a defective Bluetooth adapter drawing as much current as a processor, catching fire and potentially causing major personal injury.

 

[Radicool]

Actually seeing as how companies nowadays go for "planned obsolence" of their own tech/product, nothing will change...
Companies will still make their old tech/parts obsolete after a year or so, because they want to convince people to buy their newer tech...

Your phone wont be slow. If it slows down, or cannot run new games that come out, you upgrade a single part and bam! its faster. There is no need for a new phone so you shouldn't buy one.

and yes, I don't think normal people will actually "upgrade", they will most probably just buy a new one...

It frustrates me that everybody keeps saying the same thing. Scroll up. The point has been made. It makes no sense and your lack of elaboration makes it invalid.

seeing 80% of the people who use phones to be interested in "upgrading" or "modifying" their phone as that is something only tech geeks do

I think everybody is capable of upgrading their phone. Its easy to do yourself. It's not nerdy. Its not the same as computers because its much easier, quicker and the interface would be much neater. If you can't learn how to do something so simple yourself, go into the shop and ask them to make your phone faster. Solved.

also lets not forget that if people buy this they will have to throw away their old phones which will produce monstrous amounts of mountains of phones ^^

Invalid point. This already happens. Introducing such a phone isn't going to make everybody throw their old one. People will purchase it when their old one is "no good". This waste process of throwing a phone out isn't the fault of this phoneblok. Its something that is happening everyday because we don't already have a phoneblok.

Said phones are so cheap that there is no way the phone block idea could be cheaper. If you start looking at smart phones like the Iphone they are so valuable that only if the device is broken do they get thrown away.

I thought I ran over some numbers. I calculated it would be cheaper than most top of the line phones available. It would cost more than the average phone, however since it would last longer, it makes up for the cost.

Bluetooth chips have very strict placement requirements due to the low power antenna used. Sensors cannot be physically near each other due to interference, especially not next to RF components.

I think this is a roadblock, but this doesn't rule out the possibility of the phone from working.

It does however raise the cost for unit performance.

Whatever, the speed decrease isn't that big of a deal given that phone processors these days are fast enough for everyday usage and small games.

Your argument about computers is also flawed

I don't understand why. Let me sum this up for you in black and white.

COMPUTER: A unit made of several components. Each component can be individually bought and assembled together to create a COMPUTER.

PHONEBLOK: A unit made of several components. Each component can be individually bought and assembled together to create a PHONEBLOK.

So why is phoneblok so expensive and computers arn't? They both have the exact same concept. If it's slow, then UPGRADE DON'T BUY A NEW ONE. The only difference is that this Phoneblok is a MUCH easier way of upgrading. Barely any skills required to change the parts yourself.

Except so many parts will be thrown away that is might as well be whole phones.

I don't understand how you cant comprehend a simple idea. So many parts? How so? These days your phone doesn't turn on. So it's useless and you buy a new one. The phone is slow so you get rid of it and buy a new one. SO MUCH WASTE. Why not replace the ONE part responsible for the problem and use the rest of the fully functional phone? Get it through your head mate. Individual parts are thrown not whole phones. Therefore less waste.

Theft. Currently it is difficult to brand stolen phones as new due to noticeable wear they will have. However with blocks you could easily sell the non-surface components (hidden behind the case) off as brand new. Since these will be expensive (CPU, GPU, etc) that makes them far more attractive for a thief and the parts are harder to trace as well.

Possible. Answer: Don't buy your phone in a Pawn shop. lol. There are phone or part warranties, etc. At least in Australia we have rights to fully functional goods.

Safety?

This is a concern. Something that will probably be overcome. A defective part would be replaced under warranty. And a circuit shorting out isn't going to blow a hole through your hand. Simple temperature sensors could prevent such a battery explosion possible. Just like how a computer automatically shuts down if overheated.

Safety is a concern. I've just proposed a possible solution. I'm sure there are answers. No need to hate on the phone. It hasn't been developed and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't release it if it were too dangerous.

 

[Dr Super Good]

So why is phoneblok so expensive and computers arn't?

Because computers actually are quite expensive? This is why consumers use fewer of them and are moving more towards tablets and phones for their computational needs.

Also let us not forget that every few processor generations they change the socket and connections used. Good luck plugging your I7 into a P4 motherboard and having it work. This is why people who use a computer for performance tasks generally upgrade it completely (almost everything new) every 5-7 years (or less for some).

Why not replace the ONE part responsible for the problem and use the rest of the fully functional phone?

Because that single part will likely be >50% of the value of a new phone anyway. And that is even if it is what is broken. You honestly going to spend >£100 just because it might be the problem? Is it that the processor died, or the motherboard died, or the power converter died? All of them will brick a phone. Sure if you get enough phone parts you can plug and play with them to find the problem but who will sit around with that many parts or even be smart enough to think of doing it?

Individual parts are thrown not whole phones. Therefore less waste.

Except a phone basically is a few parts? What do you not understand that throwing away a few components is the same as a whole phone? Sure the main board might not be thrown away but seeing how most of the value and energy is the processor and things that is not really great savings.

And a circuit shorting out isn't going to blow a hole through your hand.

Tell that to all those handless Asians that had their mobile devices explode while they held them. Sure that was likely the battery fault but once you move away from phone companies designing the phones to electronic firms making finished phone components it is only a matter of time before reclaimed parts (which are not suited for re-use) make it into blocks or improperly engineered blocks are sold which fail to comply to general safety.

Lithium Ion batteries are extremely dangerous if improperly used. They can run very hot under excessive current draw, even though power electronics will try and restrict maximum current drain. Throw in a fault Bluetooth module that starts to draw as much current as a processor at full load (which is reasonable for it to deliver to modules) while the device is in your pocket and the next thing you know your trousers are on fire and you have serious burns.

It hasn't been developed and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't release it if it were too dangerous.

Tell that to the Dreamliner which has been grounded so many times due to battery related faults.

 

[Adiktuz]

So why is phoneblok so expensive and computers arn't?

Computer's aren't expensive? Really? Compare a gaming rig with a gaming console that has the same level of power, and tell me Computers are cheaper than the console...

I thought I ran over some numbers. I calculated it would be cheaper than most top of the line phones available. It would cost more than the average phone, however since it would last longer, it makes up for the cost.

What specs of the phoneblok have you used? same as a top of the line phone or what?

Possible. Answer: Don't buy your phone in a Pawn shop. lol. There are phone or part warranties, etc. At least in Australia we have rights to fully functional goods.

Tell that to people in marginalized countries that wants that phoneblok

Invalid point. This already happens. Introducing such a phone isn't going to make everybody throw their old one. People will purchase it when their old one is "no good". This waste process of throwing a phone out isn't the fault of this phoneblok. Its something that is happening everyday because we don't already have a phoneblok

Nobody said EVERYBODY... but majority would... just take a look at the iPhone, they release a new version EVERY YEAR, and majority of iPhone users upgrade to the new phone right away... so you're telling me that those 1 year old iPhones are already "no good"? Absolutely no... Those phones are fully usable, and still performs great, but their owners throw them anyway...

Your phone wont be slow. If it slows down, or cannot run new games that come out, you upgrade a single part and bam! its faster. There is no need for a new phone so you shouldn't buy one.

I think you missed the point... The tech itself is still fully usable and running good, what I was saying was that the phone makers make people believe that they "need" to upgrade to the new phones that they released. That is planned obsolence... And basing from what I saw from the past years, this planned obsolence is indeed, working great...

If you want to reduce waste or something, the phoneblok is not the answer. The only thing you need to do is to educate consumers so that they won't be convinced by this planned obsolence thing. Because as long as manufacturers do it, and as long as consumers keep believing, it won't matter what kind of tech you release.