Can there be peace without war?

Dalaran_Guard · Apr 20, 2007

Well, at first I thought you were joking, but I looked him up. Good job. However, I doubt that this Stand Watie had much influence over what would happen for the entire Confederate Army. It seems that when the supreme general (Lee) surrenders, the war is kinda already over. ANYWAY..... let's get back to the main question...

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All in all, the question is somewhat of a paradox: If there is war, peace cannot exist. However, with absolute peace, there is no such thing as war. So the two are co-dependant but cannot coexist...

Mecheon · Apr 20, 2007

Malufa said:
Alright, want to play the rule game? Effective immediately your rules are only binding on people who join after you. Since I joined long before this Archian person his does not effect me.

Happy? I am now following the rules.

I joined before you. My rules are greater than yours. However, the colour tag rule is a serious divide even with the moderators so I'm gonna wait and see, because your posts tend to have good content

And hey, Soundwave. Awesome

And my two cents, there cannot be peace without war. We're humans, we're naturally competitive. We're just lucky we've managed to get most of our competitiveness into sport and whatnot as opposed to beating the heck out of each other

Peace is impossible anyway. There's no such thing as peace, its just the time between wars

dofys · Apr 20, 2007

Dalaran_Guard said:
Well, at first I thought you were joking, but I looked him up. Good job. However, I doubt that this Stand Watie had much influence over what would happen for the entire Confederate Army. It seems that when the supreme general (Lee) surrenders, the war is kinda already over. ANYWAY..... let's get back to the main question...

----------------------------------

All in all, the question is somewhat of a paradox: If there is war, peace cannot exist. However, with absolute peace, there is no such thing as war. So the two are co-dependant but cannot coexist...

Well he can be a mediator (if I'm using the word right) between the Confederacy and the Cherokee. But lets not get into that; indeed, lets get back to the main.

Ralle · Apr 20, 2007

Hello guys!
I am sad to not having heard about this thread earlier. I need to settle something.

We are all here to make the rules, many people were sad about the color-rule and it was never actually added to the rules (I dunno why). Personally I don't really care about that rule. In my oppinion it's up to people if they want their posts to be read or not.

More than a year ago William (Malufa) was a super moderator along with Dan (GST_Nemisis). Malufa always typed in green I dunno why, but it means a lot to him

. And we did not have any problems with that.

These two guys are very good friends of mine, and they have been gone from the time Archian joined till now. Archian helped us structuring the site and making rules for it and so on. So it's kinda like a new site now.

But there is room at hive for everyone so I would like you to forget the color-rule and respect these two guys. They may soon receive their old ranks when I meet them on MSN some time soon.

*edit*

I hope that you are here to stay William and Dan!

GST_Nemisis · Apr 20, 2007

thanks so much ralle for clearing this up! hopefully everyone can be in agreement with this for now. i dont know how long i will be back for, i usually make posts during my IT lessons at school and check up on them when i get home. but hopefully it will be a little while.

i cant remember if i told you but i havent been using MSN for a while, but i might come on just to chat with you as we havent spoken about random stuff for a while which i miss. ill try to get on when i can

cya later on!

Malufa · Apr 20, 2007

I told them as much last night my friend

brad.dude03 · Apr 20, 2007

Yes, as did I, and i'm glad that my PM to Ralle last night possibly brought this on. Just as well, I told 'em Malufa wouldn't stop posting in green text

And anyway, how is Malufa going to correct people if his text is the same colour as the posters? That wouldn't be embaressing at all, defeating the purpose xD

Malufa · Apr 21, 2007

Brad brings up a most excellent point, people will think they know how to spell!

SuPa- · Apr 21, 2007

That point is pointless (not meant to be a joke) Spelling is an unimportant thing on the internet, and as long as basic ideas get across, editing a post for spelling is just a waste of time, unless you want the internet to be some kind of learning experience in grammar, which no one came here for
Also, restoring Malufa to his old position after about 2 years reeks of the stench of prejudice, because he has not re-earned his old station
Unless you count getting 8 rep from simply reentering the hive earning his worth to become a mod

GST_Nemisis · Apr 21, 2007

SuPa- said:
Also, restoring Malufa to his old position after about 2 years reeks of the stench of prejudice, because he has not re-earned his old station
Unless you count getting 8 rep from simply reentering the hive earning his worth to become a mod

it is not your decision, if Rasmus has enough trust in him to give him his personal phone number he probably has enough to make him a mod. especially when he is experienced as one and has close ties to alot of members here.

Forget about rep

Forget about earning

fact is, he earnt his way along time ago and if he is to be made a mod, so be it. it is not harsh or unfair, it is the fact that he is experienced, inteligent and a nice person, hopefully i will have to stop sticking up for him soon and you will give him a chance to prove it for himself, mod or not.

SuPa- · Apr 21, 2007

Experienced in what?
Really, I loath anyone like him who barges in and expects to be made something important, and then gets what he wants, while at the time acting like a total jerk to some people. (I have enough of those people already in my life, don't need another)... Really nice guy, it seems...
He earned his way about 2 years ago... That's the past, and I really don't care about the past much. Also, in a way you're contradicting yourself with the "earning" thing

GST_Nemisis · Apr 21, 2007

well i earnt my GCSE's 2 years ago but in 20 years they will still be recognised as a qualification.

SuPa- · Apr 21, 2007

Wow... nice on changing the subject like that. That's totally different than something like an important position at the hive workshop

GST_Nemisis · Apr 21, 2007

i meant, he doesnt have to re-earn what he already has. in ralles eyes he is a great guy, you might hates his guts but it isnt really your concern. what i mean is, you are entitled to an opinoin but you cannot say he does not deserve it! its like me telling you not to get married because i dont like your girlfriend..who the hell am i to say that? fact is, he doesnt have to justify himself to you. all i want you to do is forget about it, i assure you that Malufa is a great guy and maybe if you start again you will like him.

PurplePoot · Apr 21, 2007

Just to get back on topic --

I'd have to agree that peace would only bring a radical an opportunity to start war.

As for the Nazi's, as far as I know, NAZI is the acronym for the German wording of the "National Socialist Workers Union" party. I know, anyways, that the Nazi party evolved from them.

Doesn't seem like that much of a radical fascist party after all, eh?

brad.dude03 · Apr 21, 2007

No they don't at all... but as we all found out, the name doesn't give justice to the actions...

offtopic: supa, Malufa deserves to be a super-moderator a helluva lot more then you do, so shut it. He proved himself, he's a great, great, guy. He's an experienced and talented map maker, he is very smart, and he's a nice guy when you get to know him.

PS Only those who suck the balls at English think that spelling and grammar are unimportant on the internet. Do you want to look professional, or do you want to look like some dip-shit that can't spell to save his own freaking life. Your choice, moron.

SuPa- · Apr 21, 2007

I never said I wanted to be a super-moderator, probably the last position I'd want here. Also, I'd rather look like the dip-shit that can't spell for his life. Looking professional in a non formal online community just seems like a waste of time to me... But do you think I *"suck balls" at English? Doubt it.

*That seems just so professional ;-)

demonsofdante · Apr 21, 2007

Aww Malufa. I love this topic but its whyd it have to be your come back topic? Half of the thread is littered with arguements and rantings on the rules...past stuff etc etc. Looking forward to more philosphical topics like this

Dalaran_Guard · Apr 21, 2007

demonsofdante said:
Aww Malufa. I love this topic but its whyd it have to be your come back topic? Half of the thread is littered with arguements and rantings on the rules...past stuff etc etc. Looking forward to more philosphical topics like this

Ya, I'm thinking that we have had just about as many (if not more) comments disputing color tags and Malufa's standing than we have had on the actual topic. So, I put out a plea: please stay on topic.

@Malufa: Haven't heard much of your opinion on the topic. Any input?

Mini-Me · Apr 21, 2007

I dont know who malufa is either, but I do know now; a cocky dickhead. Welcome (back?) to the hive malufa. Enjoy your stay.

Ralle · Apr 21, 2007

OK, this is enough.

Malufa definitely acted wrong in this thread. He has already been punished. Please live on.

The next post HAS to be on-topic

brad.dude03 · Apr 21, 2007

Well, my view is, there will always be war. You can't possibly have a permanent peace, because there is bound to be something that people disagree over, or someone is going to invade some other country in the quest for more land, resources, power, whatever, and then you will have yet another war on your hands... it's a never-ending cycle.

Malufa · Apr 21, 2007

Actually this was not my "come-back" thread, Hey guys was and it was far more bomabarded than this. To answer my thoughts it is simple: Leave well enough alone. I have no problems with the people on this site nor do I dislike anyone here no matter how much they seek to provoke or attack me. Stop talking about my colour and move on, that is all I ask of those who seek to say bad things.

As for my beliefs relavent to this topic you will find my views at the begining. I believe that it is merely another representation of yin and yang, they are inexorably intertwined and must exist together.

SuPa- · Apr 21, 2007

Malufa, your behavior and attitude are the issue, not your color text anymore

brad.dude03 · Apr 21, 2007

Ugh, can we drop this already? Malufa has been disciplined for his behaviour... the coloured text is resolved... everybody (including me) /hug and shut up

Dalaran_Guard · Apr 21, 2007

Okay, interesting perspective to think about: In the novel, 1984, by George Orwell, one particular group of characters has the slogan "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength." The book talks continually about how the idea of perpetual (ongoing) war brings absolute peace and how the common man's ignorance throughout that situation brings lasting peace.

Any thoughts on the subject?

MySpaceBarBroke · Apr 21, 2007

the only way to call peace without war is "nothingness". if we all were to die, nothing surviving, no life anywhere throughout the universe, there would be no war. emotions cause war. if one has emotions, they are bound to conflict with other emotions, creating fights, or in our time, war. say, a bigass nuke is strong enough to blow everything to an oblivion in this huge wtf flash. few seconds after, there would be your peace.

GST_Nemisis · Apr 21, 2007

does no one think that the goodness in people is greater than a strange greed for more and competition? i think peace is possible. think of how many people start wars, not many, but how many are in them!??! the vast majority of fighters dont want to fight, they do because they have to. its the stupid leaders we elect that start the wars, unless its a civil wars which is started by people who dont like the leaders.

Dalaran_Guard · Apr 22, 2007

GST_Nemisis said:
does no one think that the goodness in people is greater than a strange greed for more and competition? i think peace is possible. think of how many people start wars, not many, but how many are in them!??! the vast majority of fighters dont want to fight, they do because they have to. its the stupid leaders we elect that start the wars, unless its a civil wars which is started by people who dont like the leaders.

I am an optemist, hoping that peace can occur; however, I am also a realist, so I know it cannot and will not. The only way that absolute peace can come is if everyone has the same aspirations, needs, beliefs, and understandings; and heck, if that's what peace means, I'm happy with a war every now and again.

Oh, and I was thinking about the Book of Revelations in the Bible; it talks about a peace, at the time of the return of Christ, that will last for 1000 years (if I'm not mistaken). But first will come "wars and rumors of wars" and all sorts of pestilence, etc. So, I'm thinking, if in something like this revelation, involving supposed deity, there is war before peace, what hope do we, mortals have in creating a peaceful situation that is unmarred by war?

Malufa · Apr 22, 2007

Well said Dalaran, all of it.

lorothrigs · Apr 22, 2007

Dalaran_Guard said:
I am an optemist, hoping that peace can occur; however, I am also a realist, so I know it cannot and will not. The only way that absolute peace can come is if everyone has the same aspirations, needs, beliefs, and understandings; and heck, if that's what peace means, I'm happy with a war every now and again.

Oh, and I was thinking about the Book of Revelations in the Bible; it talks about a peace, at the time of the return of Christ, that will last for 1000 years (if I'm not mistaken). But first will come "wars and rumors of wars" and all sorts of pestilence, etc. So, I'm thinking, if in something like this revelation, involving supposed deity, there is war before peace, what hope do we, mortals have in creating a peaceful situation that is unmarred by war?

qft. very well said

Dalaran_Guard · Apr 22, 2007

Thank you and thank you. :emote_grin:

So, maybe new topic sometime soon?

cal823 · May 3, 2007

Anyone noticed how screwed up societies treatment of depressed and mentally ill people can be?
Seriously, alot of adults seem to have the wrong attitude towards the youth, and alot of them need to rlly research into depression b4 they try to make their kids better, alot of the time they go the wrong way about it.
also, the youth of the world are our future. Doesnt the increasing amounts of depression, anger etc among our youth worry you? like my generation (im 15) seems to be angry and depressed alot of the time, but deeper than other generations.
but its the one below me that worries me, little kids who say bad words like 15 times each sentence coz they think its cool, who think they can "bash you up anytime" coz they think thats cool
is it just me, or are we in for a rough time in future, when alot of you guys start to retire or die, and we have to take over?
i reckon itll be a great time of change, as the young take over from the old, coz i dont think theres been such huge difference between old and young in so long.

Dalaran_Guard · May 4, 2007

Ummm... relates to war without peace how? Not following your train of thought...

MySpaceBarBroke · May 4, 2007

cal823 said:
Anyone noticed how screwed up societies treatment of depressed and mentally ill people can be?
Seriously, alot of adults seem to have the wrong attitude towards the youth, and alot of them need to rlly research into depression b4 they try to make their kids better, alot of the time they go the wrong way about it.
also, the youth of the world are our future. Doesnt the increasing amounts of depression, anger etc among our youth worry you? like my generation (im 15) seems to be angry and depressed alot of the time, but deeper than other generations.
but its the one below me that worries me, little kids who say bad words like 15 times each sentence coz they think its cool, who think they can "bash you up anytime" coz they think thats cool
is it just me, or are we in for a rough time in future, when alot of you guys start to retire or die, and we have to take over?
i reckon itll be a great time of change, as the young take over from the old, coz i dont think theres been such huge difference between old and young in so long.

Have you noticed everyone of every age think the same of the people younger than them? Hell, I'm 13 and find it odd that there are plenty of sixth graders who use profanity, yet when i was 11, i found it odd that there were plenty of fifth and fourth graders that used a lot of profanity. Nowadays, I only use profanity once in a while to produce spur of the moment humor. Also, I don't know about depression or whatnot, but i'm plenty depressed in my life and if 15 year olds are the most depressed of them all, i won't make it to that age.

Jacek · May 4, 2007

Reager · May 4, 2007

GST_Nemisis said:
the vast majority of fighters dont want to fight, they do because they have to.

That is false, otherwise people wouldn't join the army.
And those terrorists fight because they want to (though i think many of them get brainwashed).

Teh_Ephy · May 4, 2007

Reager said:
That is false, otherwise people wouldn't join the army.
And those terrorists fight because they want to (though i think many of them get brainwashed).

not necessarily brainwashed, but the beliefs that they hold are taken in and told back to them in a twisted way.

GST_Nemisis · May 5, 2007

Reager said:
That is false, otherwise people wouldn't join the army.
And those terrorists fight because they want to (though i think many of them get brainwashed).

yeh i meant more conscription and patriotism.

zt2211 · May 5, 2007

Let's see...a simple answer...
The nature of man is pride. Pride is the root of selfishness. When two people value themselves and their opinions over others', there will be conflict. That is why there is war: people value their opinion more than peace. Sometimes, the right thing to do is fight, such as in World War II against the Axis powers. Though some wars are fought for more "just" causes than others, the root of all conflict is basically the same: selfishness.

cal823 · May 5, 2007

even if their is no war, at all, ever, then we would not have achieved world peace.
coz theres peace between nations, but what about peace between individuals, within families? between friends, or collegues? there are very few people who are at peace in the world, possibly none, coz we all fight, argue, get verbally or worse abused, etc
then theres inner peace....so the fact is, full, complete world peace, is unattainable, unless all life is extuingished, then, that would be world peace.

Dalaran_Guard · May 6, 2007

cal823 said:
even if their is no war, at all, ever, then we would not have achieved world peace.
coz theres peace between nations, but what about peace between individuals, within families? between friends, or collegues? there are very few people who are at peace in the world, possibly none, coz we all fight, argue, get verbally or worse abused, etc
then theres inner peace....so the fact is, full, complete world peace, is unattainable, unless all life is extuingished, then, that would be world peace.

Okay, well, that's one view point, but you forget the meaning of peace. Peace is a period without war. Now, if there is no war possible, I don't think we could really consider it peace, as the two terms are codependent. It would just be absolute nothingness and nonexistence...

MySpaceBarBroke · May 7, 2007

cal823 said:
even if their is no war, at all, ever, then we would not have achieved world peace.
coz theres peace between nations, but what about peace between individuals, within families? between friends, or collegues? there are very few people who are at peace in the world, possibly none, coz we all fight, argue, get verbally or worse abused, etc
then theres inner peace....so the fact is, full, complete world peace, is unattainable, unless all life is extuingished, then, that would be world peace.

tell you the truth, even then peace wouldn't happen. gravity of black holes and whatnot make violent processes occur, and if the hypothetical "Big Crunch" happens, life will eventually be created again by another "Big Bang". Peace will never happen unless all of existence is extinguished.

Shadow_Fox · May 7, 2007

If there was world peace, the human race would go stagnant eventually, even the highest goals and drives (IE: Space and Technology) would become obsolete in the end, war destroys infrastructure and causes death and destruction, but alot of times can sow a desire to push foward.

lorothrigs · May 7, 2007

Can there be yin without yang? Nope. Can there be black without white? Nope. Can there be matter without anti-matter? Nope. Can there be peace without war? Nope.

cal823 · May 7, 2007

good point guys, i reckon that violence, struggle, adversity, is what makes the human race strong, evolution happens throught the death of millions, with the strong surviving, a desire for progress is created by competition with others, or by there being a problem, in a world with no problems, no enemies.....we would be stagnant.

Teh_Ephy · May 7, 2007

cal823 said:
good point guys, i reckon that violence, struggle, adversity, is what makes the human race strong, evolution happens throught the death of millions, with the strong surviving, a desire for progress is created by competition with others, or by there being a problem, in a world with no problems, no enemies.....we would be stagnant.

unfortunately, parts of the world are becoming like that; stagnant. some schools in america have banned kids from playing tag, or in gym jump rope with imaginary rope because some kids aren't "as coordinated as others". God knows america became one of, if not the, strongest militaries in the world by by banning schoolchildren from running around until they're exhausted. wouldn't want them to become sissies or people with poor lung capacities, after all. and tag definitely encourages sissyness and poor lung capacity.

lorothrigs · May 7, 2007

Political Correctness sucks. Anyone agree?

Kjiverx · May 7, 2007

MySpaceBarBroke said:
tell you the truth, even then peace wouldn't happen. gravity of black holes and whatnot make violent processes occur, and if the hypothetical "Big Crunch" happens, life will eventually be created again by another "Big Bang". Peace will never happen unless all of existence is extinguished.

exinguishing all creation isnt enough. kill off god too

Teh_Ephy · May 7, 2007

lorothrigs said:
Political Correctness sucks. Anyone agree?

agreed and seconded. nobody cares if you're politically correct if their kids kick more ass than yours.

Kjiverx said:
exinguishing all creation isnt enough. kill off god too

God exists outside creation, it being destroyed wouldn't affect him at all

seriously though, please try to add something significant to the conversation if you're going to post.

Can there be peace without war?

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